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  1. Pardon me, but I disagree.

    Squier Deluxes are IMHO on par with Mexican Fender Standards - plus they have better pickups (Duncan Designed Alnico vs. Ceramic). And they cost only half the price. The Vintage Modified series is part of the Squier Deluxe range. Indonesian Squier standards are quite decent instruments, too.

    BUT:

    The bass you linked to is made of maple - and it has maple fretboard. That means you're gonna get an open sound with a lot of highs - could be desired if you want to go for funky stuff and slapping. But if you want a lot of deep low end, better look elsewhere.

    Alex
  2. Thanks to the both of you. Alex, any ideas for a specific way to go? Like I mentioned, I really can't justify paying more than $300 (So I guess that rules out a Mexican Fender... )
  3. Originally posted by haytrain:Thanks to the both of you. Alex, any ideas for a specific way to go? Like I mentioned, I really can't justify paying more than $300 (So I guess that rules out a Mexican Fender... )


    I'd suggest trying out any and every fender copy that you can find that suits your price. Go to the stores...what other people don't like you may love. And I have heard a lot of people saying that the new squiers are actually better than the mexican fenders. I can't say it by experience because I haven't really played none of them.
  4. My first choices in this price range would be a Squier Deluxe or Standard. The Standard has Agathis (mahogany) wood, the Deluxes are made of basswood but have better pickups. I had an OLP basswood Stingray once that was quite alright - except for the weak pickup. Now I own a Korean Rickenbacker copy - maple neckthrough. But Epiphone China makes a Thunderbird bass in this price range that I'd really love to give a try - made of alder.

    I prefer classic body shapes to modern ones, but that's just personal preference.

    Alex
  5. Never met a Squier guitar or bass that has been worth the tree that died for it.

    - Fretwork is usually shoddy and sharp on the ends.
    - Pickups are horrible.
    - Volume and tone pots horrible and noisy. Crackle is never good.
    - Tuning heads almost always have issues and won't stay in tune.

    Let your own ears and hands be the judge. I am just speaking from my experience over the years.

    OLD Squiers that were built in Japan can be good. But the rest... not so much.
  6. I had an Indonesian Squier Standard Stratocaster for two years. I wouldn't have dared to compare it quality- wise to an American Standard Strat, but I'd have challenged a stock Mexi Standard Strat without second thought. What the body wood (agathis vs. alder) lacked in attack definition, the one piece maple neck, the poti choice (500K vs. 250K) and the pickups (alnico vs. ceramic) could easily compensate. Plus I prefer two- point trem to six- point. I'd only choose six- point if I were to lock it Clapton- style. And then I'd most likely go for a real hardtail. However:

    - It only did cost half as much as a Mexi Standard
    - Fretwork and action were fine - but I prefer average to extremely low anyway
    - Pickups sounded better than Fender Mexi Standard to me
    - 500K potis instead of 250K potis - but no noise or crackle. A poti only costs a few bucks anyway.
    - Tuners were non- locking (of course), but kept the tuning when strings were installed correctly
    - I used 10-46 strings for fatter sound
    - Plastic nut caused some probs when the trem was used heavily - that's what Graphtec replacement nuts are for.

    Right now I own a Squier Deluxe Double Fat Tele with mahogany body and mahogany set neck. It was manufactured in Korea by Cort and is now out of production. But the follow- up has a nicer finish with Flame or Spalted Maple Top, SD pickups instead of MightyMite, and it's got the Fender logo - in all other specs it's the same guitar, made by the same manufacturer. But it costs twice as much now as a Fender instead of as a Squier. Cort also produces the Fender Lite Ash Strats and Teles there in the same Korean factory. I'm only selling my Squier because I bought a Gibson Les Paul that replaces it in my collection. But to tell the truth - I only upgraded because of the bargains on Gibson right now. Sound- wise the difference isn't that big - especially not since I replaced the Squier's MightyMites with Gibson 490R/498T. I'd have it challenge any Epi without hesitation. Main difference is just the scale (648 mm Fender vs. 628 mm Gibson).

    Conclusion: The difference between upper- level Squiers and low to medium level Fenders is sometimes smaller than we tend to think. Maybe most of the Squiers you checked were either from the Chinese Bullet or Affinity series, or they were manufactured on a monday morning.

    I admit that I always had a knack for Gibsons (LP, SG, 335) and Fenders (Strat, Tele). Somehow I just can't talk myself into liking spike- shaped BCRich and Ibanez- style metal shredder guitars (but I I'd surely like to try out an Ibanez ARX). Anything that's more extreme than an Explorer or Firebird doesn't give me a desire to play or own it. Since I once owned a Career Evolution Fat Telecaster, I also acquired a liking for Korean guitars (PRS SE, Epiphone, Electromatic, UnSung, Cort).

    So I tend to recommend non- Chinese Squiers to beginners. I don't like the fact that a lot of guitars are mindless and shameless copies - I'd prefer to choose an original or a licensed product if it's good (and I believe that non- Chinese Squiers ARE good). Even if I know that some of the copies (i.e. SX vintage series) are on the same level.

    Duesenberg makes some great guitars: Starplayer, DoubleCat, 59, etc. Most Hagstrom guitars differ just enough from the originals to be desirable on their own right. Danelectro guitars are nice and affordable toys. Maybe one day I'll get myself a Dano U2 just for the fun of it (and by the way, they also produce affordable bass guitars). Another nice toy is the Gibson Melody Maker; 300 Euro is a steal for a USA Gibson. Replace the pickup with an SD JBjr and rock out.

    Of course I'd like to own a real Rickenbacker bass. Ricks are my fav bass guitars by far - most of my fav bass players play Ricks. I also like Preci (50s design), JazzBass, MusicMan and a few obscure vintage designs like Thunderbird. But I talked myself into buying the Rick bass copy because I neither can afford the real deal nor am a pro player who'd need one. Another good reason for buying it was the fact that it was made in Korea by UnSung. I'd recommend the Rick copy without hesitation but it's out of haytrain's price range.

    But as a final conclusion I completely agree in letting your own ears, hands and feelings judge.

    Peace and Love

    Alex
  7. Originally posted by Alex:I admit that I always had a knack for Gibsons (LP, SG, 335) and Fenders (Strat, Tele). Somehow I just can't talk myself into liking spike- shaped BCRich and Ibanez- style metal shredder guitars (but I I'd surely like to try out an Ibanez ARX). Anything that's more extreme than an Explorer or Firebird doesn't give me a desire to play or own it. Since I once owned a Career Evolution Fat Telecaster, I also acquired a liking for Korean guitars (PRS SE, Epiphone, Electromatic, UnSung, Cort).

    I'd say I'm fairly similar in taste in so far as I am not a fan of "metal"-styled guitars, but I'd also throw Gibson Flying-Vs and SGs into that category. I dislike sharp features on guitars such as the cutaways on an SG or a classic Ibanez - I much prefer the smooth aesthetic feel to stuff like Les Pauls, Strats and Teles etc. It's interesting that you mentioned Firebirds, because I remember the first guitar I ever fell in love with was this deep red Firebird hanging on the wall in a music shop in Norwich - it was just gorgeous, but at the time I didn't play guitar to any great extent. An Explorer (probably Epiphone) is next on my list of guitars/pedals/amps to get, but there's an awful lot on that list lol...
  8. Just giving this topic a bit of a dust-off - I'd always been wondering why EBTTRT sounds so much different live compared to on the album; different keys lol. On the album, it's in A, but live it's always been played in Db , although in retrospect it's no wonder why Bono falsettoed the "take me higher"s lol!
  9. Topic of keys something I've been wondering about for a while. I was playing along to the Slane DVD, seems that Bullet, Pride, One, perhaps All I Want Is You are played a key or two lower. When did they start doing this? For what songs? I imagine it was to accommodate Bono's voice as he's grown older.

    One superb version of Real Thing is the Live at the Manray, Paris version that was a b-side to Stuck in a Moment.
  10. Originally posted by AAV711:Topic of keys something I've been wondering about for a while. I was playing along to the Slane DVD, seems that Bullet, Pride, One, perhaps All I Want Is You are played a key or two lower. When did they start doing this? For what songs? I imagine it was to accommodate Bono's voice as he's grown older.

    One superb version of Real Thing is the Live at the Manray, Paris version that was a b-side to Stuck in a Moment.


    I think all the songs you mentioned are half step lower...obviously because Bono got old and it would be too hard for him to sing these ones on the original key...a lot of bands do this. When? I am not the better person to answer...but I guess since at least PopMart, when he had the voice problems.
  11. Originally posted by AAV711:Topic of keys something I've been wondering about for a while. I was playing along to the Slane DVD, seems that Bullet, Pride, One, perhaps All I Want Is You are played a key or two lower. When did they start doing this? For what songs? I imagine it was to accommodate Bono's voice as he's grown older.

    One superb version of Real Thing is the Live at the Manray, Paris version that was a b-side to Stuck in a Moment.


    I thinhk that Pride dropped in key on Popmart. But I think it dropped another 1/2 step for Elevation and Vertigo. I'd have to check my bootlegs and compare.

    Interestingly enough, Mysterious Ways went from being played on a guitar tuned too Eb to standard E - for Vertigo tour.

    So while in many cases, lower to accomodate vocals should like the reason but not in every case - as Bono sang MW in a higher key than previous.
  12. Originally posted by AAV711:Topic of keys something I've been wondering about for a while. I was playing along to the Slane DVD, seems that Bullet, Pride, One, perhaps All I Want Is You are played a key or two lower. When did they start doing this? For what songs? I imagine it was to accommodate Bono's voice as he's grown older.

    One superb version of Real Thing is the Live at the Manray, Paris version that was a b-side to Stuck in a Moment.

    BTBS should be in Eb minor, I've never come across a version that was in any key but that (album or live, i.e. it's played half a step down from standard tuning); post-ZooTV, Pride has always been played in A (i.e. played on a guitar tuned a whole step down), and during PopMart they'd use the same guitar to play ISHFWILF and AIWIY, with the capo on the 2nd fret for both (and so, interestingly, despite Bono's voice being f*cked, they played AIWIY in a higher key than in previous tours. They went back to classic Ab during Elevation, but they did play it in A a few times during Vertigo. See Buenos Aires as an example) - prior to PopMart, it was played in Bb, so it was played half a step down from standard tuning, so if anyone tries to use Bono's voice on Pride post-ZooTV as a pointer to say that his voice is on the up, don't listen because it's being played in lower keys! And as for One, it's always been performed in B (i.e. played half a step down from the album, where it was played in C).
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