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  1. Originally posted by Doc32:[..]

    Ya the debt was clearly fabricated by Republicans. It obviously didn't exist before this year. Clearly the soluotion is to spend more so we can be "progressive." Well reasoned statement.


    +1.
  3. ...and not just because I've met the guy.
  4. Originally posted by Andrew_C:Its been getting a lot of coverage over here. Sounds as though it all started from a peacefull demonstration by family members in Tottenham, then other mugs rocked up and thats when the trouble started. Some of the people rioting are only kids, wtf are their parents doing?


    Originally posted by Yogi:Pictures that can be seen on media are really sad. One of my biggest wishes is to visit London one day because many people told me it's the best city in the world. And now it's in the flames.


    It's an amazing city, but for the last few days it looks like the set of V for Vendetta has come true, only without the political will for change. Most of the rioters are kids, it's just sad. The result of years of non-investment in engaging the youth of society and a neglect of those that need the help most to get themselves back on their feet. That and the growth of a social attitude that puts rights over responsibilities and you've got a beautiful recipe for trouble. Hindsight is beautiful, but it's the only thing we have now. God only knows how long it will last. My fear is that once the troubles stop (if they ever do), people will think that's that, and ignore the underlying issues, i.e. this rot in the fabric of society. We need more public, social and political engagement, for people to care about what happens, and to understand what happens - it clearly isn't occurring to those causing the unrest that everything they do just damages their own community even more. Looting local shops, businesses etc. just kills their own local economies, things that will take years to get back together again. And what will happen? More fucking cuts to pay for the damage caused, and absolutely no reinvestment or any attempt to give the economy any kind of CPR.

    Every day passes and I get sadder for the world we live in. The troubles in the Arab world, the shootings in Norway, the global economy eternally going down the shitter (and the only ultimate solution that I can being impossible to put into practise), the rioting here - the only feeling I have is of sadness. The anger was there, but now I'm just sad. Like millions around the world, I want to change the world for the better, but how? How can we do anything positive when there's no sense of unity to progress?

    To quote The Killers, 'this is the world that we live, I feel myself get tired'. And to think I've only just turned 21.


  5. Well, she is one hell of a beauty;



    : ))))))))))))))))))))

  6. The London riots are getting absolutely ridiculous, frankly they should have brought in the tear gas and water cannons already. People who behave like animals should be treated like animals.

    The other thing that annoys me is how the media makes absolutely no mention of how 95% of the rioters are black. It's political correctness gone mad.
  7. Originally posted by vanquish:The London riots are getting absolutely ridiculous, frankly they should have brought in the tear gas and water cannons already. People who behave like animals should be treated like animals.

    The other thing that annoys me is how the media makes absolutely no mention of how 95% of the rioters are black. It's political correctness gone mad.

    It would seem that the police are started to return order without the use of such methods. The streets of London are quiet tonight, most of the trouble seems to be happening in Manchester, Birmingham etc. on a much smaller scale. Tear gas and water cannons generally get used with large masses of people, this isn't a large scale protest a la Brixton in the '70s, this is small bands of looters which don't warrant it. And the fact that there's a large amount of black youths involved is neither here nor there. This isn't about race, it's not a political protest, there isn't any kind of cause uniting those involved.

    It's the inevitable conclusion of a lack of investment in the future of this country, especially for those in poor areas with no opportunity or hope who have been left to feel disenchanted and neglected, not to mention a lack of willingness by the state to actively engage and encourage young people to take an active interest in their own community and society, be it socially, politically and economically. Youth workers and action groups have been saying for months that something like this was on the cards because of cuts being made to their funding and the schemes they were involved with. I'm not condoning any of it, but there needs to be a united attempt to understand why this has happened, and to take active and progressive steps to stop the rot, but from the sounds of it, that's not going to happen because a lot of people seem to think it's clearcut, i.e. once the rioting has stopped, the problem's resolved.
  8. Guy from Birmingham (huge U2 fan, went to 40 concerts this tour) just said on Facebook that protesters started shooting at police.
  9. Originally posted by Yogi:Guy from Birmingham (huge U2 fan, went to 40 concerts this tour) just said on Facebook that protesters started shooting at police.

    Yeah, heard that too. World's going mad. Someone tweeted Matthew 24:6 earlier, struck a chord. It's weird in so far as it feels like some weird dystopian fantasy happening all around the country, and yet I'm sat here in my room in my small countryside village, and all is quiet. In fact, as I understand it, Norfolk is fairly quiet, not heard reports of any kind of unrest. Hopefully it stays that way and everything calms down soon enough.
  10. Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]
    It would seem that the police are started to return order without the use of such methods. The streets of London are quiet tonight, most of the trouble seems to be happening in Manchester, Birmingham etc. on a much smaller scale. Tear gas and water cannons generally get used with large masses of people, this isn't a large scale protest a la Brixton in the '70s, this is small bands of looters which don't warrant it. And the fact that there's a large amount of black youths involved is neither here nor there. This isn't about race, it's not a political protest, there isn't any kind of cause uniting those involved.

    It's the inevitable conclusion of a lack of investment in the future of this country, especially for those in poor areas with no opportunity or hope who have been left to feel disenchanted and neglected, not to mention a lack of willingness by the state to actively engage and encourage young people to take an active interest in their own community and society, be it socially, politically and economically. Youth workers and action groups have been saying for months that something like this was on the cards because of cuts being made to their funding and the schemes they were involved with. I'm not condoning any of it, but there needs to be a united attempt to understand why this has happened, and to take active and progressive steps to stop the rot, but from the sounds of it, that's not going to happen because a lot of people seem to think it's clearcut, i.e. once the rioting has stopped, the problem's resolved.


    Well, if the riots are dying down then that's good. I disagree about the race thing, it should be mentioned - you can be sure if the Muslims started rioting it would be in the headlines, the communities involved should be held responsible for the actions of their youth.

    It is very much a product of hip hop culture which glorifies crime, defiance of police and the authority and values conspicous consumption.

    And anyway being poor is not an excuse to loot shoe stores for those hi top sneakers you can't afford, much less an invitation to go around causing wanton destruction.

    As for the lack of investment in a future, while due to the current economic climate jobs and opportunities are harder to come by in Britain, let's not forget that you still have an expansive social security program and this is nothing like being a youth in sub-saharan Africa or India or even countries like Greece and Albania.

    This behaviour is really the equivalent of children throwing a tantrum when they don't get what they want, it really is disgusting.





  11. Originally posted by vanquish:Well, if the riots are dying down then that's good. I disagree about the race thing, it should be mentioned - you can be sure if the Muslims started rioting it would be in the headlines, the communities involved should be held responsible for the actions of their youth.

    It is very much a product of hip hop culture which glorifies crime, defiance of police and the authority and values conspicous consumption.

    And anyway being poor is not an excuse to loot shoe stores for those hi top sneakers you can't afford, much less an invitation to go around causing wanton destruction.

    As for the lack of investment in a future, while due to the current economic climate jobs and opportunities are harder to come by in Britain, let's not forget that you still have an expansive social security program and this is nothing like being a youth in sub-saharan Africa or India or even countries like Greece and Albania.

    This behaviour is really the equivalent of children throwing a tantrum when they don't get what they want, it really is disgusting.

    It's not a race thing, the rioters are not all black, they're not all white, it's a mix. You only need to watch the coverage to see that. To be honest, I've seen more white youths than blacks, but that's just me and I've not spent my entire time watching the coverage because I want to sleep at some point.

    I agree, being poor isn't an excuse to loot - there are no excuses to loot - but the fact remains that in relation to the society we have, those youths are in the lowest place and are disenchanted and disengaged (for a host of reasons and with a host of issues that need to be addressed). And you say about social security etc., I grant you that we're better off than a lot of countries and I don't pretend it to be any other way, but that doesn't mean those in poverty here are no less deserving of help than those in sub-Saharan Africa. Clearly, the reaction to their situation is different, but a youth living in poverty is still a youth living in poverty, whether it's here or in the Sudan. Cuts are being made here that are severely affecting social welfare, and yes while we still have it, humans cannot accustom themselves to drastic change overnight, and that's what we're seeing here and frankly it's getting worse in comparison to what it was. The people who need the help most are not getting it as much as they need, nor on the level they need. That said, this is making it sound like some kind of political protest, which it clearly isn't. It is opportunistic and it needs to stop now, but it's a far more multi-layered issue than a group of young people thinking 'yeah why not, let's go ransack PC World'.

    Again, I don't condone anything the rioters are doing, I think it's shameful and shocking, but I'm not going to sit here, brand them as criminalistic thugs and think that's as far as it needs to go.
  12. Ok - so why have there been cuts to the social welfare programs in the UK?

    Though I still think the 'youth disenchantment' and 'inadequate welfare program' excuses are just a pretext offered by certain commentators and the rioters themselves have no such political ambitions and really just want an excuse to cause damage and loot property.
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U2start is run by fans for fans. Help us reduce personal costs. Consider to make a donation to support us.
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