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  1. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:Anyone up for discussing the Iran Hostage Crisis? I just read an excellent book on it, and it would be a shame to let the material go to waste.

    Let's do it then!

    (BTW, also glad for Aung San Suu Kyi, I hope this is Burma's breakthrough and not just something to be blocked later by their government)
  2. The government will be able to monitor the calls, emails, texts and website visits of everyone in the UK under new legislation set to be announced soon. Internet firms will be required to give intelligence agency GCHQ access to communications on demand, in real time. The Home Office says the move is key to tackling crime and terrorism, but civil liberties groups have criticised it.

    Tory MP David Davis called it "an unnecessary extension of the ability of the state to snoop on ordinary people". Attempts by the last Labour government to take similar steps failed after huge opposition, including from the Tories.

    Source



    EDIT: Wrong topic, sorry.
  3. Originally posted by Ali709:[..]

    Let's do it then!

    (BTW, also glad for Aung San Suu Kyi, I hope this is Burma's breakthrough and not just something to be blocked later by their government)

    Which aspect you want to go with first?

  5. We could start with, why the whole thing happened?

    I believe attacking the embassy was a mistake, but I can't really blame the people either, the embassy had been a major spy center and with all that the US government had done to Iran in the past, and the whole revolution being based mostly on blocking their influence, I can see it happen.

    This was something that started by the people, unlike what happened with the British embassy last year (that was orchestrated).
    What followed, the whole hostage taking situation was something that got forced on Khomeini. I know for a fact that he did not agree with the attack and the hostage taking, but once this was done, he couldn't back down as it would be a sign of weakness and the situation could fall into the hands of radicals.

    I believe what happened was caused by several mistakes by the US government over the years, starting with the coup and continued to when they let Shah visit the Mayo Clinic. I still think it was a mistake and what followed was even worse, but I can't blame them.
    The US government had to understand the situation better, and as a stabilized country (while Iran had just had a revolution and was not yet stabilized) they had to act with more restraint.
  6. The spy center arguement don't work that well. At the time the C.I.A. had four men in country, none of whom had been there more than 4 months, none who spoke Farsi, and by there own admission they had no idea what was going on. More or less they used the "spy documents" as a way to get rid of more moderate politicians.

    Random thing I've always wondered and haven't been able to find. Were the remains of the 8 Americans lost during the rescue atempt (which failed largely due to politics, and lack of a unified special forces command.) ever returned to the United States.
  7. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:The spy center arguement don't work that well. At the time the C.I.A. had four men in country, none of whom had been there more than 4 months, none who spoke Farsi, and by there own admission they had no idea what was going on. More or less they used the "spy documents" as a way to get rid of more moderate politicians.

    Random thing I've always wondered and haven't been able to find. Were the remains of the 8 Americans lost during the rescue atempt (which failed largely due to politics, and lack of a unified special forces command.) ever returned to the United States.

    As I said, "had been" a major spy center, once having around a 1000 people working, before the revolution. You couldn't expect the people to care/know that it wasn't like that for the past couple of years, and as I said, the US' espionage and meddling (mainly the coup) caused the troubles that led to the revolution, and our country still hasn't recovered fully, we are yet to reach the level of democracy and success we had when the coup happened. This is not something to be forgiven easily...heck, I'm a very moderate/liberal person supporting deep reforms and considering the whole revolution to be a mistake, but I can't forgive the US for the coup.

    About the lost Americans, was that during the rescue mission in Tabas (the desert)? I don't think there is anything special about that, that part of the country is a big desert, they were probably left there and never recovered.

    There is a twisted and un-trusting relationship between our two countries, and this has caused us much trouble. You started it, but setting that aside, just think about any conflict caused by or about Iran, it all originates from the messed up relationship.

    The Shah's dictatorship, the Shah's obsession with arms and weapons instead of proper development in the country leading to deep poverty, the Shah's paranoia and deep crackdown on all opposition, the revolution, the hostage crisis, the removal of moderates from the political system (caused by bad political moves on both sides during the crisis), the Iran-Iraq War, the effed up relationship with Israel and support of terrorist groups and now the nuclear issue....

    Even the change from a reformist government to a hardline one (Khatami to Ahmadinejad), I blame this mainly on the US and mainly on George W. Bush. There was a major opportunity for peace and talks between the two countries but Bush ruined it with the "axis of evil" speech. That destroyed it. And that caused most of the moderate people to lose hope for better relations and gave hardliners more opportunities for propaganda...

    It's just sad when you think about it...and more than anyone, it's hurting the people of Iran.
  8. Actually the eight lost Americans were recovered by your Armys inteligence an displyed in a rather sick press confrence. Along with them they also recovered the body of a civilian who was killed (imediately upon landing, the team guys saw a tanker truck aproaching. A Ranger panicked and shot it with a light aniti tank weapon. one man eascaped, but another didn't. This mostely happened due to the suprise of it. A bus was stopped later, and the 44 civialians inside were detained. Incidently after the evacuation some wanted to call an airstrike on the site to deny anything useful to your people, but the proximity of the civis prevented that).

    I've heard many of the original hostage takers have said it was a bad idea in hindsight.
  9. Also if your just going to use this as an America bashing excuse, I'll pass on further discussion.
  10. I had heard about the bus, but didn't know about the captured ones. Are you sure? I've seen many footage from that time (trust me, our TV shows all footage from that time every year, specially if it's humiliating for americans), but never seen this press conference, and even now when I search for it on the web I don't find anything. All I found was that 8 Americans were killed on an explosion, all that was left there/captured were 5 helicopters.
    There wasn't much of an army intelligence at that time either.

    Also, I'm not trying to bash america, I'm just trying to help you understand why this happened and why everything is happening. Many things happen around the world, including hostage takings, that are done by radical groups or terrorists. This one isn't like that, that's the point I'm trying to make. The people involved in the hostage taking are mostly reformists now.
    I'm not saying that the Iranian government is a saint and the US government is the "great satan".
    All I'm saying is that America's actions, actions your government officially regrets, is what brought the revolution and gave the power to hardliners.
  11. Perhaps someone realized how badely aforementioned press confrence reflected on your gov. Displaying the bodies of your fallen foes genreally dont look good.
  12. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:Perhaps someone realized how badely aforementioned press confrence reflected on your gov. Displaying the bodies of your fallen foes genreally dont look good.

    Maybe. So, nothing else to discuss on this?
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