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  1. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:What do you guys think of this whole Cambridge Police scandel? It sounds to me, like both Prof. Gates, and Sgt. Crowley, atcted inapropiately.


    haven't been paying too much attention to strictly race relations issues, but it's fun as hell hearing Chris Matthews discuss it w/ guests on Hardball

    Also, sorry to hear you're having trouble with your father. Is it possible to get a restraining order against him? I realize this kind of topic is not exactly on-topic with this thread, even though it could be considered a quasi-politico-cultural issue. So, if you wanna pm about it, that's ok.
  2. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:What do you guys think of this whole Cambridge Police scandel? It sounds to me, like both Prof. Gates, and Sgt. Crowley, atcted inapropiately.


    I blame the neighbor who called the police, how blunt must you be for not recognizing your neighbor?
  3. Originally posted by platonic:Indeed, that's interesting. I haven't paid attention to British news for a while. Pardon if I should be more informed, but is New Labor even New Labor, anymore? (Not like I thought they were progressive enough, but still...) I'd be interested in how you would explain the rise of 'extreme' right-wing parties in Europe?

    I can't really speak for the whole of Europe but in the UK, the main parties are fairly close to one another, there's not much difference between them. New Labour are not the Socialist force they like to pretend, whilst the Conservatives seem to talk a good game but they'll do exactly the same as they always have were they to get into power - cut costs. Historically whenever a Labour government has got in to power, it's on the back of a period of Conservative rule and their characteristic feature is to spend nothing and save a lot, so the country suffers because there's no reinvestment of public funds, so when a Labour government comes in, they have a sh*tload of money to spend and boy how they do, and basically in the short term everybody does well because of large public spending but they don't have any measures to actually preserve the long term prospects of their period in charge, hence why we come into problems. With regard to your question, I think the rise of right-wing parties has come about because of a couple of reasons. One would be that, because everyone is getting fed up with this monotony but whereas more central/centre-left parties try to come up with genuine solutions, the more extreme parties pick out at a limited number of issues and shout'n'scream about them. People get attracted to them because they portray themselves to be 'focusing on the [supposedly] real issues', but essentially their plans would lead us even more into the brown stuff than we are now.

    Another reason, which has really come about in this last set of local/EU elections would be simply that supporters of the main parties (especially Labour) decided not to vote at all to spite their party and send a message to say 'we're not happy about what you've been doing' but forgetting that if they don't vote, other parties have more success - not necessarily any more than they would have had if everyone voted at said election, but it's more magnified because there's a smaller cross-section of votes to draw from and thus the same number of votes for a smaller party looks bigger when the overall amount is significantly reduced, which is how the BNP got two members elected into the European Parliament - a lot of people didn't vote at all, and thus the same number of votes (in fact it was reported they got even less votes than in previous elections) as they'd received in previous elections got them elected whereas previously, it would have amounted to nothing which is what worries me - as the saying goes, 'all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for a few good men to do nothing'.

    The problem is that I do feel this cycle of Labour>Conservative>Labour>Conservative governments is simply going to continue, because people can't cope with change. I am biased in that I am a supporter of the Liberal Democrats but what they propose, i.e. raise of taxes which would lead to increased reinvestment etc. seems to me to be a viable proposition and, in my opinion, would benefit the country in the long run BUT many people, and I guess understandably, don't want to pay any more into the system but I feel much of that is down to a phobia of sorts with the way the last few governments have pissed around with it - the Lib. Dems. have not had any chance in recent years to actually put their proposals into action, plus historically they've always been the lesser light compared to the big two. They're actually focusing on the issues that are of importance to the country and yet ironically no one wants to have anything to do with them because such proposals would amount to a lot of change but hey, isn't life all about change and adapting to the new?

  4. It's indeed troubling that someone wouldn't recognize their own neighbor But also, the police are a bit at fault too I think, but maybe I shouldn't comment, since I haven't paid as much attention to the story as I would like

    Originally posted by platonic:[..]

    haven't been paying too much attention to strictly race relations issues, but it's fun as hell hearing Chris Matthews discuss it w/ guests on Hardball

    Psh, Kieth Olbermann is much more hilarious
  5. Originally posted by katherine94:[..]
    It's indeed troubling that someone wouldn't recognize their own neighbor But also, the police are a bit at fault too I think, but maybe I shouldn't comment, since I haven't paid as much attention to the story as I would like





    Sounds to me, like Gates played the race card too early, Crowley got pissed off, and arrested him as a little "fuck you move".
  6. @WojBhoy

    Wow. Thanks for the extremely informative post. One suggestion: please break them into smaller paragraphs. It's not your fault; the paragraphs are actually just what you would have in a serious article, but when I am on different forums for hours, it strains my eyes. In fact, it might just be my perhaps dyslexic eyes, but they often bounce up and down in the middle of a long paragraph. Sorry.
    Originally posted by WojBhoy:With regard to your question, I think the rise of right-wing parties has come about because of a couple of reasons. One would be that, because everyone is getting fed up with this monotony but whereas more central/centre-left parties try to come up with genuine solutions, the more extreme parties pick out at a limited number of issues and shout'n'scream about them.

    I, too, have felt that the strategy of penalizing the party in power by voting for somebody, anybody, else, is idiotic. It is no substitute for a real, rational alternative. Sadly, in our country, there really hasn't ever been a viable third parties option. I especially dread what will happen to this country if the Republicans won't get their heads out of their arses and get real, b/c no party in power is going to stay honest on its own for long.
    'all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for a few good men to do nothing'.

    Wow. I've never heard that before. The awesomeness of that saying is apparent on the first look, but I'll need to contemplate it for a while to truly appreciate it.
    Liberal Democrats but what they propose, i.e. raise of taxes which would lead to increased reinvestment etc. seems to me to be a viable proposition and, in my opinion, would benefit the country in the long run BUT many people, and I guess understandably, don't want to pay any more into the system but I feel much of that is down to a phobia of sorts with the way the last few governments have pissed around with it

    You know what the word is over here, that Britain has some crushing taxes, and you know who's doing the complaining? The – pardon the pun – filthy rich. Now, no good can be expected from higher taxes in the hands of a corrupt gov't, or one that refuses to be practical, but I hear you guys at least have a pretty good healthcare system. In fact, over here, the politicians are pounding each other on that issue, right now.

  7. lol
    you're right, but Olbermann's wit can be so much more cutting, while Chris has this good-natured old-school gentleman demeanor about him. At least that's how I perceive it. Btw, I do (secretly) think Keith is brighter, indeed, but don't tell Chris that.

    On a different note, are you sure you're 14 years old?? 'coz I'm astonished you know these guys
  8. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:
    Sounds to me, like Gates played the race card too early, Crowley got pissed off, and arrested him as a little "fuck you move".

    sounds like a probable scenario
  9. Originally posted by platonic:Wow. Thanks for the extremely informative post. One suggestion: please break them into smaller paragraphs. It's not your fault; the paragraphs are actually just what you would have in a serious article, but when I am on different forums for hours, it strains my eyes. In fact, it might just be my perhaps dyslexic eyes, but they often bounce up and down in the middle of a long paragraph. Sorry.

    Glad you appreciated it and no worries, that WAS my attempt at breaking it down, you should have seen the original answer yeah I have a habit of rambling unfortunately, and often is the case whereby there's a maelstrom of blurb to then try to piece it together into something coherent! I strive eternally
    Originally posted by platonic:I, too, have felt that the strategy of penalizing the party in power by voting for somebody, anybody, else, is idiotic. It is no substitute for a real, rational alternative. Sadly, in our country, there really hasn't ever been a viable third parties option. I especially dread what will happen to this country if the Republicans won't get their heads out of their arses and get real, b/c no party in power is going to stay honest on its own for long.

    Indeed - what makes it all the more confounding is that, as my understanding goes, the people who abstained from voting said they would return to voting in their normal manner in next elections etc., but the damage has already been done and yes, perhaps there is an element of trying to make a point but it does smack of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
    Originally posted by platonic:Wow. I've never heard that before. The awesomeness of that saying is apparent on the first look, but I'll need to contemplate it for a while to truly appreciate it.

    It's one of my favourites, the only person I know of it being attributed to was Edward Burke but I'm not actually certain on that score because there's some ambiguity over the origins but either way, whoever said it, the sentiment feels just as relevant as ever. I put it up there alongside Voltaire ("I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - to me, the essence of democracy) in that respect.
    Originally posted by platonic:You know what the word is over here, that Britain has some crushing taxes, and you know who's doing the complaining? The – pardon the pun – filthy rich. Now, no good can be expected from higher taxes in the hands of a corrupt gov't, or one that refuses to be practical, but I hear you guys at least have a pretty good healthcare system. In fact, over here, the politicians are pounding each other on that issue, right now.

    I think we have the makings of a good health system in so far as it's public and available to everyone because it is funded by the tax payer and thus I would say we have one over the US in such a respect. However, there are many issues that need improving, I mean many a bad thing is said about the NHS but at least, as I said above, we have the foundations in place by which to strive to improve it. That said, it needs someone in power who's got some bloody brains and the balls to make the changes necessary - it's a sad indictment of any country when the people cannot trust those in power to be objective and do the right thing that benefits everyone. It must be said that I don't pretend to suggest that I could do a job of it BUT I know that the people currently at the helm are making a right pig's arse of it and either need to seriously get their act together or get kicked out. Sadly, the latter seems more liekly, but (using past examples as a precedence) those who will follow will do no better, and the cycle will continue unabated.
  10. Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]
    Glad you appreciated it and no worries, that WAS my attempt at breaking it down, you should have seen the original answer yeah I have a habit of rambling unfortunately, and often is the case whereby there's a maelstrom of blurb to then try to piece it together into something coherent! I strive eternally

    lol I hear ya, bro
    in that case, I appreciate the effort on that post. I don't know if my eyes would have survived one long paragraph.
    Striving eternally... that's what we gotta do. If I remember correctly, that's basically the big theme of Goethe's Faust, and I seem to have a quote to prove it:
    "Who strives always to the utmost,
    For him there is salvation."
    I put it up there alongside Voltaire ("I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - to me, the essence of democracy) in that respect.

    That's quite a hardcore statement. Come to think of it, It's been too long since I read up on Voltaire. I just remember thoroughly disliking Candide.
    I think we have the makings of a good health system in so far as it's public and available to everyone because it is funded by the tax payer and thus I would say we have one over the US in such a respect. However, there are many issues that need improving, I mean many a bad thing is said about the NHS but at least, as I said above, we have the foundations in place by which to strive to improve it. That said, it needs someone in power who's got some bloody brains and the balls to make the changes necessary - it's a sad indictment of any country when the people cannot trust those in power to be objective and do the right thing that benefits everyone.

    I need to stop you right there and ask 'can one ever completely trust one's gov't'? But I'm sure you already agree with the idea that a citizen must be well-informed and watchful - you just didn't get around to writing that in your post. No problem - I got your back.

    and about the leader needing brains as well as balls: true true. I don't doubt Obama has the brains (plus all the advisors he could ever need), but why doesn't he muscle something up?? He's still got the popularity.
    It must be said that I don't pretend to suggest that I could do a job of it BUT I know that the people currently at the helm are making a right pig's arse of it and either need to seriously get their act together or get kicked out. Sadly, the latter seems more liekly, but (using past examples as a precedence) those who will follow will do no better, and the cycle will continue unabated.

    First of all, it's not everyone's calling to run a country (or should I say 'serve the people' cough cough), so don't you dare feel a sliver of shame about it.

    On the last point, I would like to offer some encouragement. I know it sounds trite and naive, but maybe I've listened to too much Napalm Death, Immortal Technique, Bob Marley, The Clash and, yes, U2, but I can't believe, won't believe, that people like you and me can't make a difference. Unfortunately, I've been out of the loop for years, down with a kind of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, but I'm finally getting the hang of how to deal with it and move forward in a positive direction. Sad to say, I lost a lot of time, and I have much catching up to do, but I'll try to pour all my spirit and muscle into it and see what I can push through.

    I must admit, this is one delightful discussion, but I definitely have to do some research on setting up a wireless network in my home, or when my brother comes back from his business trip, he'll be on the internet all day and everyone will wonder if I died or something. Do you happen to know a reliable tech forum where I can find tips if I get stuck?
  11. Originally posted by platonic:[..]
    lol
    you're right, but Olbermann's wit can be so much more cutting, while Chris has this good-natured old-school gentleman demeanor about him. At least that's how I perceive it. Btw, I do (secretly) think Keith is brighter, indeed, but don't tell Chris that.

    On a different note, are you sure you're 14 years old?? 'coz I'm astonished you know these guys

    Aw, Kieth is indeed brilliant, but Rachel Maddow seems like the nicest out of the three, Chris can be polite, but sometimes he yells to much
    Yes I'm 14, and Anderson Cooper is my media hero
    And Aaron, I don't think he played the race card to early, if he'd been white and tried to break into his own house, nobody would have said a thing, and we all know it
  12. Originally posted by katherine94:[..]
    Aw, Kieth is indeed brilliant, but Rachel Maddow seems like the nicest out of the three, Chris can be polite, but sometimes he yells to much
    Yes I'm 14, and Anderson Cooper is my media hero


    See, Harry (is it ok if I use your name?), that's another reason to be hopeful, when we got the next generation coming up already knowing the pantheon of progressive and humanitarian media.

    And, Katherine (since it's also your username, I'll go ahead and call you that, unless you'd prefer another nickname), you're right, Rachel does seem to be the warmest of the bunch. I watched her arguing with Pat Buchanan about the race issue in Sotomayor's hearings, the other day, and if that's the most confrontational she ever gets, she is a model of intelligent and measured debate.

    And, lol, yes, chris can get too excited and loud, but I also love him for that. I think they're all great in their own way. Let us not forget Ed Schultz, the hammer of the gods on healthcare.

    Tho I respect him greatly, AC is my last choice, b/c he's on CNN, which has more issues than they're willing to admit. Also, he doesn't zoom in on most issues that really interest me.
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