U2start.com | Mercy

ahn1991

So here's my new opinion about Mercy in light of its past live performances. The first live performance was amazing, but a bit rocky, as expected. The second performance (Munich) was about 1000 times better in every respect. Sure, the lyrics aren't the same as the ones from the sessions, but to me the band felt way more confident with the lyrics they chose. Also, the new lyrics are extremely poetic, especially with the song being called "Mercy."

"You want to kill me and I want to die, we were meant for each other, you and I"
"No where else to go, and there's no one left to trust," etc.

Those lyrics instantly make me think of two lovers, one begging the other for mercy, mercy love, or something of that sort.

The original lyrics are ethereal, otherworldly, pure lyrical genius. For this reason, I feel that the official released version will have these lyrics and not the ones of the live performances. In my opinion, the original lyrics may/may not work very well live but the live version WILL NOT work well in a studio album setting. This is all just my opinion, of course.

aussiemofo

14 years

U2 have just made my week. I'm only now learning about this momentous inclusion in their live setlist. Unbelievable. Still prefer lyrics of original and its cut in half in length. But couldn't be happier!

WojBhoy

14 years

Originally posted by vanquish:Ahem, please explain what's so inane about it.

It's bloody true - the vast majority of songs today have terrible lyrics - do you think otherwise?

I have no idea why people get so angry when I simply state the truth, should I be less blunt in future?

It's inane because you seem to be forgetting two key things - a) the right of others to their opinion, and b) to respect other peoples' opinions. Music is entirely subjective, and I believe where subjectivity is concerned, there isn't an objective right or wrong, so casting yourself to be stating the truth seems to suggest you've got access to something no one else the world over has nor ever will. I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with some of your opinions on music and lyrics, because I think you'll find I do both, but I'm happy to respect the fact that other people differ in their opinion and not try and make them feel insignificant because. The point is you don't seem to be respecting the opinions of those who differ to you, and that's what I think people, including myself, don't appreciate. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion - far from it, difference in opinion encourages debate - but it doesn't seem like you remember that everyone else is too, and there's no need to go around trying to make them feel stupid just because you think differently.

I apologise if this feels like a personal attack, 'cause it's not meant to be, I'd say the same to others if I felt the situation demanded it. You come across as a decent guy, but I feel you'd do well to just demonstrate a bit more in the way of acceptance and respect for other people's opinions.

Andrew_C

14 years

Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]
It's inane because you seem to be forgetting two key things - a) the right of others to their opinion, and b) to respect other peoples' opinions. Music is entirely subjective, and I believe where subjectivity is concerned, there isn't an objective right or wrong, so casting yourself to be stating the truth seems to suggest you've got access to something no one else the world over has nor ever will. I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with some of your opinions on music and lyrics, because I think you'll find I do both, but I'm happy to respect the fact that other people differ in their opinion and not try and make them feel insignificant because. The point is you don't seem to be respecting the opinions of those who differ to you, and that's what I think people, including myself, don't appreciate. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion - far from it, difference in opinion encourages debate - but it doesn't seem like you remember that everyone else is too, and there's no need to go around trying to make them feel stupid just because you think differently.

I apologise if this feels like a personal attack, 'cause it's not meant to be, I'd say the same to others if I felt the situation demanded it. You come across as a decent guy, but I feel you'd do well to just demonstrate a bit more in the way of acceptance and respect for other people's opinions.

well said, if there was a listing for "musical opinion" in the dictionary i think this would be a pretty good explanation

Andrew_C

14 years

wow that miracle without mercy is pretty good

MattG

14 years

Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]
It's inane because you seem to be forgetting two key things - a) the right of others to their opinion, and b) to respect other peoples' opinions. Music is entirely subjective, and I believe where subjectivity is concerned, there isn't an objective right or wrong, so casting yourself to be stating the truth seems to suggest you've got access to something no one else the world over has nor ever will. I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with some of your opinions on music and lyrics, because I think you'll find I do both, but I'm happy to respect the fact that other people differ in their opinion and not try and make them feel insignificant because. The point is you don't seem to be respecting the opinions of those who differ to you, and that's what I think people, including myself, don't appreciate. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion - far from it, difference in opinion encourages debate - but it doesn't seem like you remember that everyone else is too, and there's no need to go around trying to make them feel stupid just because you think differently.

I apologise if this feels like a personal attack, 'cause it's not meant to be, I'd say the same to others if I felt the situation demanded it. You come across as a decent guy, but I feel you'd do well to just demonstrate a bit more in the way of acceptance and respect for other people's opinions.

Harry....just...

pwnd.

And RIGHT.

markdickinson

14 years

I love both versions and agree that it got better the second time played live. Maybe they will release both versions on a new album. With the extended version as an extra track. I think the reason that the song has changed and got shorter is that its going to be released as a 'single' and will need to be shorter for radio play.

WojBhoy

14 years

Originally posted by Andrew_C:well said, if there was a listing for "musical opinion" in the dictionary i think this would be a pretty good explanation

Originally posted by EyesWithPrideB3:Harry....just...

pwnd.

And RIGHT.

It's nice to see you guys both seem to agree, but I do hasten to add I wasn't trying to 'pwn' anyone, I just felt there was a point to be made. Anyways.

KaiserJose

14 years

Gonna put it out there:

Mercy lyrics = more manure than a Cheltenham stable/ cheesier than a Frenchman's breath

Just putting it out there

vanquish

14 years

Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]
It's inane because you seem to be forgetting two key things - a) the right of others to their opinion, and b) to respect other peoples' opinions. Music is entirely subjective, and I believe where subjectivity is concerned, there isn't an objective right or wrong, so casting yourself to be stating the truth seems to suggest you've got access to something no one else the world over has nor ever will. I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with some of your opinions on music and lyrics, because I think you'll find I do both, but I'm happy to respect the fact that other people differ in their opinion and not try and make them feel insignificant because. The point is you don't seem to be respecting the opinions of those who differ to you, and that's what I think people, including myself, don't appreciate. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion - far from it, difference in opinion encourages debate - but it doesn't seem like you remember that everyone else is too, and there's no need to go around trying to make them feel stupid just because you think differently.

I apologise if this feels like a personal attack, 'cause it's not meant to be, I'd say the same to others if I felt the situation demanded it. You come across as a decent guy, but I feel you'd do well to just demonstrate a bit more in the way of acceptance and respect for other people's opinions.

Yes, sorry I admit I got a bit carried away as u2spear was arguing with me on lyrics in another thread (and I get frustrated with people who don't really know what they're talking about but still try to argue).

But I agree and disagree with your point, I acknowledge that taste is subjective (as I said u2spear was fear to like whatever he wants),
However quality is objective to a certain degree.

One way of thinking about it is that there are certain musical characteristics eg. depth, complexity, melody, rhythm, innovation, dynamics, simplicity, passion, repetition, atmosphere etc.

Generally a piece of music will embody a few of these characteristics, now where subjectivity comes in is, different people will rank these characteristics differently eg. some may like melody more than rhythm, or complexity more than simplicity and so their opinion of a song will differ depending on their preferences. And there is no objective standard to say what characteristics are better than the other, it is completely subjective.

But the characteristics themselves are pretty self evident, for example Bohemian Rhapsody or Happiness is a Warm Gun are innovative songs - whether you like them or not is a different matter.

For example I am not a big fan of Led Zeppelin, mainly because I value lyrics and melody highly, but I acknowledge the intricacy of Jimmy Page's guitar work or the energy of Bonham's drumming and agree that they are among the greatest bands of all time.

So I think you can say that music is not completely subjective - neither is it completely objective.

Perhaps, I should have explained all of this at the start, but essentially what I was trying to say about Mercy was that some of the lyrics were very basic, cliched and unlike Bono's earlier work, and I personally don't like this, others may and they are free to do so - but that doesn't mean they can argue that the lyrics are actually complex and use a variety of literary & poetic techniques when they do not.

Does anyone understand my point? Probably not, but it's quite hard to explain in writing.

Doc32

14 years

Originally posted by vanquish:[..]

Does anyone understand my point? Probably not, but it's quite hard to explain in writing.

I get your point for sure. I do agree with you to a certain extent. I think the main issue was the phrasing of your point moreso than the point itself.

vanquish

14 years

Originally posted by Doc32:[..]

I get your point for sure. I do agree with you to a certain extent. I think the main issue was the phrasing of your point moreso than the point itself.

Yea, I should have been more diplomatic

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