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  1. Originally posted by LikeASong:We had a similar discussion some time ago regarding other very different thing, but the underlying issue was basically the same. Something (whatever it is, a painting, a song, anything) is not automatically good just because it is innovative. There are innovative things which are good, there are innovative things which are crap. The innovation and/or improvisation factors don't turn a mediocre thing into anything better. It's still a mediocre thing.

    U2 wanted to innovate by adding some trumpet playing over I Still Haven't Found's "Exodus" part. Maybe it was a good idea -debatable, but to each their own-, but it turned out as something strange -the adjective is debatable as well-. Surely the band enjoyed playing with a legend, and those in the audience who knew Masakela loved having him on stage. But the proper musical aspect of it is still somehow mediocre, the trumpet playing is a bit off at times and the song didn't benefit much from it besides the purely innovation it brought - and that's more of an impartial statement than a like/dislike thing. I give high amounts of KUDOS to them for trying to innovate and keep some things fresh. But then impartiality comes in and tells me "Hey, thanks for trying, but it didn't work".

    Thank you for summarizing what I was previously trying to say.

    I did leave out, although thinking it when typing, that in my restaurant analogy, that I wouldn't have a problem if my parents picked something else for me, provided it was better. In this case, they thought this was better, it was special for them and for those in the stadium who like Mr Masakela, but it seems a fair number of people have expressed, that while innovative, it didn't work.

    How many times do concerts have an act performing and there's another high profile musician in the audience. The special guest comes up and does a song with the main group. No practice/rehearsal before hand and sometimes it works great other times it's awkward and just doesn't work. But a lot of people hype it because the "special" guest played on stage regardless whether they did a good job. Also, the main act enjoyed doing the performance and it was special to them regardless if it was a good joint venture.

    So....my point is, I agree with LikeASong's analysis. If the use of the trumpet sounded good, I'd be on board with using it for U22.....maybe if they had rehearsed it more it would have sounded better.

    Again, yes it is only one song, but are there more surprises?
  2. Originally posted by RattleandHum1988:[..]

    It may not have worked in certain spots, but there are definitely parts where it's in the proper scale and it sounds "neat". That being said, I somewhat agree in that it was a bit of a failed experiment, and something like that shouldn't be on the album that's meant to be representative of the tour. It's funny becuase I don't remember the trumpet being in the 45 second clip they had on the site for a preview (but I could be wrong here) but now that it comes out everyone is disappointed.



    I have the clips that were provided and checked again........no trumpet anywhere in the clip
  4. Originally posted by cvstahl:But to say that we should be grovelling for table scraps and be thankful for anything we get is wrong and has nothing to do with being classy or not


    I think any analogy that attempts to compare U22 to table scraps is wrong.

    Also, if you think it's not a manner of class, let me use a more crude yet direct description of what I see.

    People need to stop bitching about something that is...
    1) not here yet
    2) not something that U2 is obligated to give us


    All these people saying that U2.com wanted to make it a cd selected by fans, yet go around saying that U2.com totally failed because they included a song that a vocal fan doesn't like is incredibly infantile and reeks of the mentality of entitlement.

    Initially, people were glad that fans were able to have a say on what goes on the CD and now people are comparing the fact that U2.com picked which show each song comes from to a parent picking what a child gets to eat at a restaurant (which is a terrible analogy, by the way).

    It has a lot to do with classiness because people aren't simply saying that they dislike the version of the song U2.com chose. They are saying that U2.com is overriding the fanbase/ruining the CD/tons of other irrelevant crap a petulant child would say.

    So it's ok to disagree with what U2.com is putting on the CD. But stop bitching about how U2.com "betrayed their fans" or other stuff like that because it makes you sound incredibly snobbish and not classy at all.
  5. Originally posted by ahn1991:[..]


    I think any analogy that attempts to compare U22 to table scraps is wrong.

    Also, if you think it's not a manner of class, let me use a more crude yet direct description of what I see.

    People need to stop bitching about something that is...
    1) not here yet
    2) not something that U2 is obligated to give us


    All these people saying that U2.com wanted to make it a cd selected by fans, yet go around saying that U2.com totally failed because they included a song that a vocal fan doesn't like is incredibly infantile and reeks of the mentality of entitlement.

    Initially, people were glad that fans were able to have a say on what goes on the CD and now people are comparing the fact that U2.com picked which show each song comes from to a parent picking what a child gets to eat at a restaurant (which is a terrible analogy, by the way).

    It has a lot to do with classiness because people aren't simply saying that they dislike the version of the song U2.com chose. They are saying that U2.com is overriding the fanbase/ruining the CD/tons of other irrelevant crap a petulant child would say.

    So it's ok to disagree with what U2.com is putting on the CD. But stop bitching about how U2.com "betrayed their fans" or other stuff like that because it makes you sound incredibly snobbish and not classy at all.

    I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying.

    The comment about table scraps was used not about U22 as a whole, so to take the ending snippet out of context is misquoting me. It was used in reference to a mentality of, take anything you're given and be happy to get it. I would be the first person to agree if the band/U2.com had said they were putting together a 2 cd set from the 360 tour for the fans and here it is. I think then, you say, thank you for putting this out and if you don't like certain tracks, well hit the skip button. But when they say, we want to do this and you vote for what you want and you'll get it and then you don't. The fans have a right to speak up. I don't care what show they use for each song and I think everyone speaking up here agrees with that. Just pick a good version, if it's unique AND sounds good, then great. The criticism is that alot of people don't think this was the best performance of the song. Yes it's different, but as LikeASong so eloquently states, different isn't better because it's different. KUDOS for trying something new and please continue to try new innovation, but in this particular set of parameters for this collection of songs, if the innovation doesn't work, then please don't include it here.

    Yes, most of U22 is not here yet and I've stated that we see what has happened with this one track, are there more surprises that people won't like........maybe.......and maybe there will be some we really do like.

    Yes, the band isn't obligated to give us anything....until they say, on their own, without people begging them to do this project, that they are going to do it. If you then offer it, then do what you say you're going to do.

    Lastly, nobody has stated that U2 has ruined the whole CD, not sure how that has been derived in all of this. In terms of my analogy about the restaurant, it was just an attempt to give a point of perspective about what people view this as..........I am certainly open for a better example, in fact LikeASong actually followed up with a better summary of the situation. Really no need to get personal in your unhappiness in people using logically structured criticizing of this one situation
  6. Who are you to say that it doesn't work? Can you say exactly how many fans think it doesn't work? I think it works perfectly fine and I know many others who would agree with me. The point is that while U2.com is giving the fans a choice, what you are asking them to do is to set up a poll asking users what track they want and from which gig they want it from. This redirects right back to my argument that some people have this mentality of entitlement.
  7. Originally posted by ahn1991:Who are you to say that it doesn't work? Can you say exactly how many fans think it doesn't work? I think it works perfectly fine and I know many others who would agree with me. The point is that while U2.com is giving the fans a choice, what you are asking them to do is to set up a poll asking users what track they want and from which gig they want it from. This redirects right back to my argument that some people have this mentality of entitlement.

    Come on now.........now you're getting silly. I only spoke up after I saw a number of people stating how they didn't think it was the best performance of the song. Yes, everyone has and is entitled to an opinion, including you and me. I'm happy to agree to disagree about if this is the best version of the song. I never asked to be able to select which show each track comes from, just please pick a good version. A lot of people are stating that they think the timing of the trumpet parts are off and at time sounds out of tune. I'm happy to be able to vote for the tracks and let them pick best versions.

    Trust me, I am the last person who believes in entitlements and from what I'm hearing from you and your opinion about entitlement, I think we could easily go out for a beer and have a great, mutually agreeing, conversation about people needing to lose that type of thinking.

    If you think that the trumpet version is great and you love it, so be it......my point was only based on a lot of comments from people finding it awkward sounding and far fewer speaking up about it being a great version
  8. Originally posted by kris_smith87:[..]


    ...really thought you were going to make reference to U22: Fish Out Of Water Uber Super Duper Even Better Than Superman Deluxe version...


    I am quite tempted to come up with another lame joke about the stupid corny remix names U2 continue to come up with, but just don't have the energy to do so. I hope they would just quit remixing songs, and if they have to release singles, put some outtakes or demo versions to make the single really worth buying.
  9. Originally posted by AndyPower70:I love this topic.
    It starts with someone telling me what songs to vote for and now it is just full of complaints!
    It brings a smile to my face everyday as I read


    I think my tone when I started this topic was kind of like telling people what to vote for, but I didn't really intend for that to be what I was saying. I guess deep down inside, I knew that Electrical Storm had no shot at all, and was convinced I'll Go Crazy would beat it out by half a vote or something contrived. Even yet another version of Spanish Eyes that was lackluster would've been nice, but it was not meant to be.

    Overall, I'm happy with the final release. Sure I wish they simply allowed for the voting to allow each disc to add up to 75 or so minutes per disc, but that is a pipe dream for this sort of thing.

    With CD sales declining, the music industry continues to put out so called budget releases with 10 songs on them, but I simply don't buy a disc unless it really has something I need, and I try to buy discs that are close to 80 minutes. Yeah, another pipe dream.

    In closing, I grade what we ended up with like this:

    Song Selection B-
    Full Use of size of Cds D-
    The fact a Fan Release had something to do with the fans: A+++
    No I'll Go Crazy: Priceless +++++++
  10. Originally posted by pleasegone:[..]

    Overall, I'm happy with the final release. Sure I wish they simply allowed for the voting to allow each disc to add up to 75 or so minutes per disc, but that is a pipe dream for this sort of thing.

    With CD sales declining, the music industry continues to put out so called budget releases with 10 songs on them, but I simply don't buy a disc unless it really has something I need, and I try to buy discs that are close to 80 minutes. Yeah, another pipe dream.

    In closing, I grade what we ended up with like this:

    Song Selection B-
    Full Use of size of Cds D-
    The fact a Fan Release had something to do with the fans: A+++
    No I'll Go Crazy: Priceless +++++++


    I agree. Whenver I listen to something like the fan club version of the Slane Show, or even Sydney in my car I get pissed cause of the length of the CD isn't good, it lasts maybe half a day for me before I have to change it. A good cd will last 3-4 days for me in my car...but then again, I guess thats a sort of personal thing.

    Lets just put it this way: I still wish it were more than 22 songs, and that they would have just made a 3-4 CD set with every song (with both versions of each song if they remixed it halfway through the tour in the case of NLOTH and Magnificent) played on the tour... of course this would never happen, but a man can dream right???
  11. Originally posted by jmushouse:[..]


    I agree. Whenver I listen to something like the fan club version of the Slane Show, or even Sydney in my car I get pissed cause of the length of the CD isn't good, it lasts maybe half a day for me before I have to change it. A good cd will last 3-4 days for me in my car...but then again, I guess thats a sort of personal thing.

    Lets just put it this way: I still wish it were more than 22 songs, and that they would have just made a 3-4 CD set with every song (with both versions of each song if they remixed it halfway through the tour in the case of NLOTH and Magnificent) played on the tour... of course this would never happen, but a man can dream right???

    Uh... Aren't CDs are limited to a maximum of about 79 minutes. But based on the length of the shows, the best way to split it is to have half on one CD and half on the other. If you made one CD that was roughly around 80 minutes, the second CD would be maybe around 40 or 50 and that would make for an awkwardly short second CD. Having 2 CDs of roughly the same length makes much more sense.
  12. Originally posted by ahn1991:[..]

    Uh... Aren't CDs are limited to a maximum of about 79 minutes. But based on the length of the shows, the best way to split it is to have half on one CD and half on the other. If you made one CD that was roughly around 80 minutes, the second CD would be maybe around 40 or 50 and that would make for an awkwardly short second CD. Having 2 CDs of roughly the same length makes much more sense.

    Not the point. Since there was no practical need for the limit to be 22 songs, the limit should have been the most minutes you can cram on each cd, since it was going to be a multi show compilation. The point is both cds could be 75 minutes to 79:57. Cds can actually be 99 minutes, but many older players won't play them. If both cds were as close to 80 min as possible, the release would include most of the songs played on the tour. They could have set up the voting so the top vote getting songs got on, and if the final track voted in was too long to fit, the next highest voted song that fit could make the cut. Since the cd format likely only has 2-10 years left at most, why not make the most of it? This way, most fans get the songs they wanted on what would be an even better document of the 360 tour. Since it wasn't going to be one complete show, why not get the most out of the format?
    Still, as I said in one of my above posts, I'm pretty satisfied with what we got, I just wish they would've knocked it out of the park. Still, considering some of the recent fan club releases, this is the best ever, and despite my minor bickering, I'm happy. A lot of people are either overly happy or overley sad with the release. I'm happy with it, but I try not to go to either extreme, and be happy when U2 do something good, and this release seems to be something very good. I'm just greedy enough to believe two near 80 minute cds would've been the best thing ever!
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U2start is run by fans for fans. Help us reduce personal costs. Consider to make a donation to support us.
U2start is run by fans for fans. Help us reduce personal costs. Consider to make a donation to support us.