1. A quick (though not so quick with hindsight) comment.

    Technically, there's two kinds of rationality in play here. If we only take into account the perspective of the single music consumer on the shortish term, then certainly one ought not to buy an album when one already has the music. That money could be spent in other ways which would add to the happiness one has already secured by getting that music without paying for it.

    If we widen our gaze instead and take into account *the long term interests of both music producers and music consumers*, then we really ought to pay for the music we listen to. Because otherwise musicians would be working for free, and this is isn't right. It also isn't sustainable long term. Even if we only take into consideration the perspective of the single music consumers, what would bring them short term happiness, may bring them longer term unhappiness. Why? Because it may well be that *in time* those consumers will be left with *less music* to listen to, whether they buy it or download it illegally. (The music business might become less and less attractive to young artists if one doesn't get paid for making music.)

    Similar considerations apply, for instance, to environmental matters. It is in our short term interest to produce plastic, burn fossil fuels etc. And it is perhaps in my interest to drive from x to y instead of using public transport. But, once we widen our gaze a little, we can see that these short term interests are very likely to be massively outweighted by unsustainable climate change costs.

    So, in a nutshell, I think both parties in the foregoing discussion were right, because they were to some extent talking past each other (they had in mind a different conception of 'interest/rational'). A single person's interest over a certain time interval t (what may be rational for one to do at t) may not coincide with the interests of larger groups over a larger time interval t'.

    Of course, my own thought is that, when our actions can affect society as a whole, in deciding what we ought to do, we should take into consideration the interests of larger groups over larger time intervals.

    Concerning the music industry: the million dollar question is, to be sure, how to make people pay when everything can be pirated so easily. U2 are precisely trying to answer this question, even though it is questionable whether the SOI stunt really helps the general cause in this respect. SOE might be different.

    My two cents
  2. Originally posted by LikeASong:[..]

    Trololololo♫ Amen my friend!

    Anyway, we've all made our points abundantly clear - not let's move on to the next topic of discussion.

    My parents have bought the vinyl of SOI and I have to admit that it looks fucking ace, with the all black / white vinyl design. Frankly amazing (much better than the CD editions). They were somehow puzzled about the Larry&Aaron cover though, so I slightly explained it to them and they loved it.


    Had there not been a bonus disc on the CD I may have bought the vinyl.
  3. Lets talk about SOI.

    I love this record very much. Since POP the best U2 album.
    Also The Miracle, California and Song for Someone are starting to grow.

    And I add Lucifer's hands, Crystal Ballroom and EBW accoustic to my personal SOI
  4. Originally posted by ferrari:Lets talk about SOI.

    I love this record very much. Since POP the best U2 album.
    Also The Miracle, California and Song for Someone are starting to grow.

    And I add Lucifer's hands, Crystal Ballroom and EBW accoustic to my personal SOI

    +1 California ('acoustic') has indeed grown on me too, no doubt in part thanks to the defence of California committee...
  5. I want to hear EBW full band damn it
  6. The acoustic version of California is amazing. Also, the live version is electric, but combines several elements of the acoustic version, which makes it even stronger of a track.

  7. me too! as beautiful as the acoustic version is, I'm really curious about electric and full band.
  8. Maybe EBW should start acoustic and the go into full band electric?
  9. Or just mix it up each night. Electric in one slot in the show tonight, acoustic elsewhere tomorrow.

  10. Me too. It's kinda annoying me. It's like the Bono and Edge show lately.
  11. I am not a big fan of accoustic sessions, but U2 does a great job with EBW, Raised by Wolf and California.

    But I would also like to hear a full band EBW. They are talking about changing setlists, so U2 can start with EBW.

    The accoustic songs are suitable for the promo tour, because to my opinion most of the SOI songs are to complex to play them live in a tv or radio studio.