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  1. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    Yeah that is the only thing that takes me out of the calm reasoned zone when someone tries to judge you and tell you who you are. Im glad that in the midst of quite complex discussion in the last page or so we've had some really interesting chat and nobody's fallen out or offended anyone.
    Not yet anyway...
  2. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    Yeah that is the only thing that takes me out of the calm reasoned zone when someone tries to judge you and tell you who you are. Im glad that in the midst of quite complex discussion in the last page or so we've had some really interesting chat and nobody's fallen out or offended anyone.


    Well done guys!
  3. It's refreshing to see such civility.
  4. We still have a few more time zones to get through yet. Let's see if we can get through the entire day!
  5. Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]


    I struggle with the idea that moral judgements can be involved in objective fact, e.g. war is objectively wrong, but certainly agree should be . Please don't misunderstand me in so far as I myself do believe that war is wrong, but that's based on my morality which I believe is a subjective thing. I don't believe that outside of this planet the various moralities of humans around the world have any objective relevance - I argue that they're all born out of social / cultural / evolutionary development and thus relevant in our multiple subjective existences, but not universally relevant. To that end, morality

    (If you've made it this far, thank you for reading - I think it became more philosophy than politics but there you go!)


    As a Christian, I disagree (maybe obviously) with your point here about morality being an ultimately subjective thing. But that's actually why I'm still trying my best to withhold too much criticism from fellow Christians who actually voted for Trump. Given his staff's recent comments on "alternative facts" about the inauguration and his previous offensive remarks toward just about every minority group of people, I find it upsetting and ironic that Christians who criticize moral relativism are apparently fine tolerating the kinds of immoral, unjust behavior that Trump represents.

    In the spirit of the thread right now, it's been great to read this discussion so far. Definitely isn't easy to navigate how to disagree with each other on opinions while still attempting to base those opinions in facts. Cheers to more good discussion!

  6. Haha, c'mon team, let's keep it together - we can do it!

    Am glad that you guys found some sense in my previous post despite some interesting typos and other grammatical anomalies I can't quite explain..
    Originally posted by bpt3:[..]

    As a Christian, I disagree (maybe obviously) with your point here about morality being an ultimately subjective thing. But that's actually why I'm still trying my best to withhold too much criticism from fellow Christians who actually voted for Trump. Given his staff's recent comments on "alternative facts" about the inauguration and his previous offensive remarks toward just about every minority group of people, I find it upsetting and ironic that Christians who criticize moral relativism are apparently fine tolerating the kinds of immoral, unjust behavior that Trump represents.

    In the spirit of the thread right now, it's been great to read this discussion so far. Definitely isn't easy to navigate how to disagree with each other on opinions while still attempting to base those opinions in facts. Cheers to more good discussion!

    For sure I admit, it's a difficult position to take, especially when as human beings I think many of us need a sense of certainty, but it's the one that makes most sense from my experience of life so far! In a way it's more a background thing, i.e. day to day I generally work through life based on my understanding, morality values etc. (my subjectivity so to speak), but in a way I think I find my grounding from the idea that I have to own my values, my morality etc. and work to maintain them because otherwise I'm failing myself and what I hold to be my core self.

    As it happens, I grew up in a Christian household, and so whilst I never embraced it completely, I feel my morality etc. was founded in a pretty New Testament space. In that vein, I certainly agree about that sense of frustration with Christians who act in a way that to me completely goes against my understanding of Christianity's basic tenets. I sit there and wonder how they got to that place with their beliefs set in stark contrast with Christians I know who are vastly different in their ways and their beliefs. I apply the same logic to many other things inc. other religions, and then have to conclude that it's a wonderfully bittersweet result of the human experience!
  7. Originally posted by bpt3:[..]


    As a Christian, I disagree (maybe obviously) with your point here about morality being an ultimately subjective thing. But that's actually why I'm still trying my best to withhold too much criticism from fellow Christians who actually voted for Trump. Given his staff's recent comments on "alternative facts" about the inauguration and his previous offensive remarks toward just about every minority group of people, I find it upsetting and ironic that Christians who criticize moral relativism are apparently fine tolerating the kinds of immoral, unjust behavior that Trump represents.

    In the spirit of the thread right now, it's been great to read this discussion so far. Definitely isn't easy to navigate how to disagree with each other on opinions while still attempting to base those opinions in facts. Cheers to more good discussion!
    Both my faith and moral compass prohibited me from voting for either of the hypocrites, and challenged my conscience to even vote at all this time around as there really wasn't a worthy choice. It was disheartening to say the least.
  8. I'm glad the Christianity/ religious topic has came up because it's one I find really difficult to have a view on and so enjoy listening to everyone else's take on it. I do believe in god, In fact quite strongly believe, but I don't follow a particular faith and have set my own guidelines and values in that I feel that to believe and try to be the best I can is enough. I think the bible is quite open to interpretation in regards to applying it to modern day, however please correct me if I'm wrong with this view. I just feel that even from church to church ministers can have a different take on things although I do feel like it's aimed towards the same general message. My friends dad is a great minister, he's certainly got his own style of preaching that I can relate to and it makes me think about my religious views but I feel I'm too stubborn to commit to a faith or a certain way of life. I'd like to think though I live by a lot of the principles of Christianity.
  9. brilliant Dutch brilliant



  11. Trump has managed to get his disapproval rating over 50% in just 8 days. A new record!



    Alternative Facts Version: The polls are skewed because of the millions of illegal residents that were included and the biased mainstream media used photographic angles that made Donald's approval ratings look worse than they actually are. Donald has the greatest approval ratings. That's right, the greatest. Nobody gets approval ratings like Donald Trump does.
  12. Visual.

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