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  1. Not that much of a "formality" in my opinion... Old Tradford is strong, but the fear of losing is stronger. I don't think Schalke is completely beaten IF they make some changes in their tactic and attitude.
  2. Originally posted by LikeASong:Not that much of a "formality" in my opinion... Old Tradford is strong, but the fear of losing is stronger. I don't think Schalke is completely beaten IF they make some changes in their tactic and attitude.


    They've blew it. The tie should have been cleaned up in this first game. Home advantage is big in Europe but Shalke just didn't show up.
  3. I'm going to ask a question. It is a question that might shock some of you. But try to remain calm, and if you want, go ahead and answer.

    Here it comes:


    I don't understand soccer (yes, I'm going to call it soccer) leagues. I really want to understand it better because I'm growing more fond of the sport. MLS (the American professional soccer league, which many of you I'm sure feel like is quite comical) soccer is catching on here in the States. I have a team in my city (Real Salt Lake). Real SL won the MLS cup in 2009 and is now playing in the finals of the CONCACAF tournament. If we win our game tomorrow night against Monterrey Mexico then we get to go to the Fifa Club World Cup in Japan and line up against some premier teams. That would be a dream for us here in Salt Lake City.

    ANYWAY, my question is this: I don't understand soccer leagues and how I am supposed to follow soccer globally. Sure, I can follow MLS pretty easy enough. ESPN covers that here in the States. But I have no idea, for example, what league Real Madrid plays in. Or even (gasp) Manchester United. I hear of these teams, but I have no idea how they work, what leagues they are in, etc. Is there a league in europe that these premier clubs all play in? What about the south american teams? Do they ever play each other? I'm confused. Help. I want to be a fan!
  4. Originally posted by molang7:Anyone from America see the USA vs Mexico soccer game? Was a thriller, except the refs seemed to blow the game for us! Clint Dempsey's "offsides" should have been a goal!

    I also heard Ireland lost 1 nil to Brazil. Any guys and gals from Ireland catch the game? Did Robbie Keane play?

    I'd like to hear about the other games around the globe, since here in America we get about 1 game on tele/month .................


    Do you mean Real Salt Lake vs. Monterrey? Or USA vs. Mexico? I'm going to the Real Salt Lake vs. Monterrey Mexico game tomorrow night. I'm so excited. Championship game of the CONCACAF tourney.

  5. Originally posted by gng007:I'm going to ask a question. It is a question that might shock some of you. But try to remain calm, and if you want, go ahead and answer.

    Here it comes:


    I don't understand soccer (yes, I'm going to call it soccer) leagues. I really want to understand it better because I'm growing more fond of the sport. MLS (the American professional soccer league, which many of you I'm sure feel like is quite comical) soccer is catching on here in the States. I have a team in my city (Real Salt Lake). Real SL won the MLS cup in 2009 and is now playing in the finals of the CONCACAF tournament. If we win our game tomorrow night against Monterrey Mexico then we get to go to the Fifa Club World Cup in Japan and line up against some premier teams. That would be a dream for us here in Salt Lake City.

    ANYWAY, my question is this: I don't understand soccer leagues and how I am supposed to follow soccer globally. Sure, I can follow MLS pretty easy enough. ESPN covers that here in the States. But I have no idea, for example, what league Real Madrid plays in. Or even (gasp) Manchester United. I hear of these teams, but I have no idea how they work, what leagues they are in, etc. Is there a league in europe that these premier clubs all play in? What about the south american teams? Do they ever play each other? I'm confused. Help. I want to be a fan!

    Right. Big mission to explain BUT I've got time on my hands, so I'll give it a shot!

    For the record, I don't find the MLS comical - far from it. We've been able to watch some matches this year on ESPN America and the quality is far from bad, and you fans are a credit to your league. I've seen far worse quality football-wise in the lower pro leagues here in England.

    In Europe, pretty much every country has its own major football/soccer league. Real Madrid play in Spain's top league, La Liga. Germany has the Bundesliga, Italy has Serie A, Holland has the Eredivisie. They're all the top leagues in their football structure. I'll try and explain the general nature of European football structure with England as an example, 'cause it's my 'local' league.

    In England, we have a huge football league structure, composed of a lot of divisions. However, I'll just stick to the top four for now, they're the highest up the pyramid.

    The top division is the Premier League/Premiership, and is 20 teams strong. Winning it is simple - team that finishes top at the end of the season is champion; we don't have a playoff cup like in American sports leagues such as the MLS, NHL etc. Each team plays each other twice, home and away (so 38 games a season) and the top team is national champion. It's the same format with most other leagues around the world; the MLS is a notable exception because I guess the founders want a system which is familiar to the average American sports-fan used to the structure of your other major sports leagues. Below the Premiership, we have the Championship, League 1 and League 2.

    In order for teams to move between the leagues, we have a system of promotion and relegation/demotion.

    At the end of every season, the bottom 3 teams in the Premiership get relegated/demoted (for essentially being the worst three teams) to the Championship. The Championship consists of 24 teams. At the end of each season, after 46 games (i.e. play 23 other teams home and away once) the top two teams are automatically promoted up to the Premiership.

    The third place is filled by the team that wins the end of season playoff, which is competed by the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th placed teams in the division. However, the notion of a playoff system here differs from the American notion of sports playoffs, e.g. the Stanley Cup's 'best of 7' system.

    In our playoff system, the four teams are split up into two ties, Team A vs Team B, and Team C vs Team D, and in each tie two matches are played, so both teams play home and away against each other. For example, Team A plays Team B, and wins the first match 2-0 but loses the second match 1-0; they win by virtue of an aggregate victory of 2 goals to 1 overall. Team A goes on to play the winners of the tie between Teams C and D - for the purposes of example, let's say Team D won it. Team A plays Team D in the playoff final, a one-off match, wins 1-0 and thus becomes playoff champions and wins the 3rd promotion place to the Premiership.

    This system of promotion and relegation goes on between the divisions, so, as I say, at the top we have the Premiership - 3 teams go down to the Championship, 3 teams come up from the Championship. From the Championship, 3 teams are relegated to League 1, and 3 teams come up accordingly from League 1 to the Championship. From League 1, 4 teams go down to League 2 (why 4, I don't know, just for the purposes of maintaining competition I guess) and 4 teams come up - in the case of League 2, 3 teams are automatically promoted, and the 4th place is decided by a playoff series between the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th teams in the system I explained above. From League 2, 2 teams are relegated, but they go down to what are called the 'non-leagues', which is the secondary level of professional football in England but that's going probably a bit too far into depth bearing in mind this is supposed to be a kind of crash course in European/world football/soccer lol!

    Basically, this system of promotion and relegation is similar throughout all the leagues in Europe, but I would suggest that the English league has the greatest amount of structure. The system is generally the same for most of world football, I would suggest, certainly in Europe and South America.

    You mentioned the CONCACAF Champions League - the equivalent competitions here in Europe are called the Champions League and the Europa League; in South America, they have the Copa Libertadores, and Asian football has its equivalent Champions League too.

    In Europe, the Champions League is far more prestigious and famous than the Europa League, and to some extent the latter is a bit pointless, but that's beside the point. Basically, both competitions are made up by the most successful teams from European leagues. The format is sort of similar to the CONCACAF version. Qualification for the Champions League each season is a fairly complex affair, but we'll just stick with the basics, i.e. the competition proper is composed of 32 different teams from across the continent, e.g. league champions from Italy, England, Spain, Germany etc. and 2nd, 3rd placed teams etc. The actual structure is similar to the World Cup if you remember from last year, but not identical.

    The 32 teams are split into 8 groups of 4, and within those groups, each team plays each twice, home and away, so 6 matches altogether. At the end of that phase, the top two teams progress to the knockout stages - the 3rd placed side drops down into the Europa League (but I won't go there for now!) and the 4th placed side is just knocked out of competition completely for the season. In the 1st knockout round aka. the last 16, each team is paired off with another to play a two-legged tie. The winners of those two-legged ties play in the quarter final stages, being paired off together again. The winners of the quarter finals progress to the semi-finals, again paired off for a set of two-legged ties, the winners play each other in the final. The winner of the Champions' League qualifies for the FIFA World Club Tournament you mentioned earlier, although if they pull out for whatever reason, the winner of the Europa League fills their place, but that rarely happens.

    Examples of teams from the major European leagues (listed by country / top tier division) -

    England / The Premiership - Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester City, Tottenham Hotspur

    Spain / La Liga - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Valencia, Sevilla, Villarreal

    Germany / Bundesliga - Bayern Munchen, Schalke 04, Borussia Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Hamburger SV

    Italy / Serie A - AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus, AS Roma, Lazio

    Holland / Eredivisie - Ajax, PSV Eindhoven, Feyenoord, FC Twente, AZ Alkmaar


    I could go on but shan't for now lol. I've just listed some of the more familiar names from some of the biggest leagues in Europe that you may find yourself coming across. At the moment, we're coming to the end of the football season here in Europe; most of the major leagues have only a few games left of their domestic calendar - in England, Manchester United are on course to win the championship title, as are AC Milan in Italy, Barcelona in Spain and Borussia Dortmund in Germany (although in neither case are they dead certs as yet). In the Champions League, we're at the semi-final stages - tonight, Manchester United just beat FC Schalke 04 2-0 in Germany, and are favourites to progress to the final (sorry Kirsten for reminding you, by the by!), and on Wednesday night, Real Madrid and Barcelona play the first match of their two-legged semi-final tie. As a sidenote, Real Madrid vs Barcelona is known as El Clasico - it's one of the biggest games in world football because they are two traditional powerhouses of Spanish football and have a massive rivalry. Think NFL, Steelers vs Ravens or NBA with Yankees vs Red Sox, and then add some - it's a BIG deal.

    Anyway, I'll let you digest all that for now and see how you cope hope this provides some kind of starting block!
  6. WojBhoy,

    Wow! Thank you very much! That was great and I really appreciate it. I think I probably know more about soccer now than anybody I know. Woot wooot! Thanks again.

    So which team do you support? Do you go to a lot of matches?

    I just bought a flex pass to Real Salt Lake MLS games (I get 10 seats to use at any game(s) I want) - so I can take 10 people to 1 game; or 5 people to 2 games; or 1 person to 10 games. You get the idea.)

    I'm so excited for the CONCACAF championship game (should I quit calling it a "game" and call it a "match"?) that I am going to tomorrow night. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

    THANK YOU AGAIN.
  7. Originally posted by gng007:WojBhoy,

    Wow! Thank you very much! That was great and I really appreciate it. I think I probably know more about soccer now than anybody I know. Woot wooot! Thanks again.

    So which team do you support? Do you go to a lot of matches?

    I just bought a flex pass to Real Salt Lake MLS games (I get 10 seats to use at any game(s) I want) - so I can take 10 people to 1 game; or 5 people to 2 games; or 1 person to 10 games. You get the idea.)

    I'm so excited for the CONCACAF championship game (should I quit calling it a "game" and call it a "match"?) that I am going to tomorrow night. I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

    THANK YOU AGAIN.

    No worries man always happy to chat about football, it's my favourite sport and if I'm of any help, I'm glad to be of service. As far as terminology goes, game and match are equally appropriate I'd say. The CONCACAF match sounds amazing, hope it's worth your going!

    I support Norwich City, who at the moment are playing in the Championship, so the 2nd highest tier of English football. We're a sizeable club; not the biggest club, but pretty sizeable - probably in the top 30 in the country as far as support, financial muscle and recent success goes. Norwich is a city in the east of the country, e.g. if you look at a map of England, we're somewhere in the big lump to the right hand side. Unlike a lot of cities in England, we've only got the one major team here - cities like London, Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester have lots of different teams which creates a lot of local rivalries, whereas for us, our nearest domestic rivals are Ipswich, the nearest big city to us who are some 40 miles away. I grant you that, in American terms, 40 miles might as well be around the corner, but England being the small country it is in comparison, 40 miles is a fair distance for a 'local' rival.

    Like I said earlier, the domestic season is nearly over, and with 2 games to go we're sat in 2nd place in the Championship, so we could be getting promoted this season. That in itself is a great thing, but the thing is, in the last 5-6 years we've been relegated twice. In 2003/04 we got promoted to the Premiership as champions of Division 1 (The Championship as it was before the name changed for sponsorship reasons), but we were relegated from the Premiership after only the one season.

    Going up a division is always tough because the teams are generally better and have more money, and in the Premiership the financial gap is huge. The Championship playoff final is the most expensive prize in world football - the winner gets something in the region of £80m, so, 100m dollars or more? My currency conversion isn't the best but it's a shitload of money either way, and that gives you and idea of how being in the Premiership does for a club's bank account. The system of player transfer is different in European and most of world football to that in the states, i.e. we don't have draft picks and rosters etc., teams can buy and sell players as they see fit, to all intents and purposes.

    However, back to Norwich. Like I say, we were relegated from the Premiership. However, after a succession of crap seasons, crap managers and general crap, we were relegated to League 1 two season back (2008/09), playing in the 3rd tier of English football for the third time in 50 odd years. We got promoted back to the Championship as champions of League 1 last season, but that's what makes this season all the more crazy, that we could be getting promoted twice in consecutive seasons - that rarely EVER happens in football because of the difficulty of adjusting to the league above, although there are clubs in recent years who've managed it on occasion.

    Right, I need to crack on and get some sleep 'cause it's gone 4am and I need to head back to university today to start revision for my finals, but I'll be back to chat all things football etc. later if you should so wish! Take it easy bud
  9. WojBhoy,

    Congrats to you and your fellow Norwich fans. That is awesome that you are headed up to the Premiership division after only one year in the Championship division.

    When you have some time, here are some more questions I have:
    1. Has Norwich ever won the Premiership division? If winning the Premiership is pretty much impossible for Norwich, what do you consider to be a successful season?

    2. Which is more prestigious, winning the Premiership division or winning the European equivalent to the CONCACAF - I think you said that was called the Champions League?

    3. Do any players on Norwich play for England's World Cup team? Sadly for us MLS fans, most of the premier American players are playing in England, France, and Germany.

    4. Does the Premiership division (and other lower leagues) have things like salary caps, revenue sharing, etc? If not, it seems almost impossible for a team like Norwich to ever win the Premiership - I mean, how could Norwich afford to pay the big name players who could achieve a Premiership division championship?

    5. Do the Premiership and Championship division seasons run concurrently?

    6. During the division seasons, do the England club teams play any teams not in their respective divisions?

    7. Do club teams in Europe (England, maybe more specifically) play teams from other European countries? During their seasons? Do those wins/losses go toward winning some tournament or is it just strictly for bragging rights (I think the term is "friendlies")?

    8. Have you ever been to a World Cup game?


    Thanks again!

    Greg




  10. okay.... last night......

    in all fairness, ManU was and is many levels better than Schalke. No way of denying it. Schalke was hiding like chicken on a field full of foxes. The only player playing face to face with this top team was our keeper Manuel Neuer. He saved us from a possible 0 : 7 or even higher defeat.
    But no need to hang our heads in shame now. ManU is top class and we are not. Reaching the semi final after beating Inter is the biggest success in Schalke's history. Time to be proud about that

    conclusion of last night: ManU is a top team, hands down. They will make it to the final...... unless...... everyone thought Inter was unbeatable at home before..... until..... well, we'll see next week...

    tonight, el classico.... go Barca go
  11. Nice to see two British scorers last night and nice to see an English team doing well (as always) in the Champions League. Shame for Schalke but yeah your right Man U were very good. Hope it goes to penalties or something next game!

    Although I feel La Liga has better individual players, The Premiership has the best teams, definatly.
  12. Originally posted by u2spear:Nice to see two British scorers last night and nice to see an English team doing well (as always) in the Champions League. Shame for Schalke but yeah your right Man U were very good. Hope it goes to penalties or something next game!

    Although I feel La Liga has better individual players, The Premiership has the best teams, definatly.


    If you're talking about the Man Utd only, I think you'll find Giggs scored and he's not British
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