U2start.com | Football / Soccer topic

Originally posted by iTim:A few comments on the BBC live text earlier from viewers that were published throughout the match:

"Pep Guardiola's teams are so boring to watch. It's painful."

"I prefer Jupp Heynckes' Bayern Munich."

"Arjen Robben looks like the only Bayern player interested in putting the ball in the back of the net. The rest are happy to play football passing drills like it's a Sunday morning."

"Mourinho and Guardiola - two men determine to suck the life out of football in their own special ways"

"Further proof Guardiola has weakened Bayern. His style has lost them their cutting edge - and made them so open at the back."

"Possession without goals v parking the bus."

"Dislike Chelsea and Tuesday's semi-final was dull. But to be fair to them Bayern are just as dull with how they play."

I agree. I've never really enjoyed a Guardiola team.

True, like I said last years Bayern was more fun to see. In his Barca period they has some more pace and tempo in their game, back than it was really nice to watch.

But at their game yesterday I do enjoy their position play but it's too much, not enough real danger towards the goal.

bartajax

11 years

Originally posted by clover68:[..]

Mou read his players and his opponents and consequently set the matches > Guardiola doesn't
Mou read the match and knows how to make changes on the run > Guardiola doesn't
Mou read the global context of a match > Guardiola doesn't
Mou doesn't have always the best team around, winning as well > Guardiola always
Mou has n way skills > Guardiola 1
Mou knows that football has 2 phases > Guardiola doesn't
Mou character > Guardiola character, boring as his football
Mou ... > Guardiola ...

Pato unluckily only Bruce is around and across the ocean but he >>> Guardiola hehehe

- True.
- Both can do that.
- Not true, putting a wall in front of your own box isn't reading a game.
- Mwha, not really. Mourinho also gets to spend 100 million each year, he makes different choises
- Don't know what you mean here

- Character? Sure, but blaming everyone beside himself isn't nice, putting a finger in someone's eye is just crazy. Giving your players the order to hit everyone is just crazy. He sure has character but a very bad one.
- No, I think Mourinho is an amazing coach, for sure one of the best. But his style destroys his prestations for me.

But I do understand you Ron, since Mourinho gave Inter the biggest succes in years.

LikeASong

11 years

Amen Bart, I couldn't have said it better. I've had this argument with my friends many times and I've come to the conclussion that Mou is like U2: whether you LOVE him or you HATE him, there's no midfield (;)). I won't ever like him. I will always prefer a boring & respectful coach/player/person in general than a exciting but rude & unmannered one. ANY TIME.

Andrew_C

11 years

Mourinho is a cnut, the way he talked about AVB pissed me right off

iTim

11 years

I don't think Guardiola can affect a match in-play as much as Mourinho, Bart. To me it seems like it's plan A all the way, even when that's not working. Barca in particular would fall behind and there'd be absolutely no change in style.

bartajax

11 years

Originally posted by iTim:I don't think Guardiola can affect a match in-play as much as Mourinho, Bart. To me it seems like it's plan A all the way, even when that's not working. Barca in particular would fall behind and there'd be absolutely no change in style.

True, true. But his plan A is so good he most of the time doesn't need a plan B. But I also got tired of his teams and their ongoing positionplay without the real intention to score. That's why I didn't understand why he wouldn't play with Muller last night.

Like I said, I'm not a big fan of Guardiola either, but I prefer his style in and outside the field and no doubt Mourinho is a great coach too.
But I just don't like him and most of all his play style.

patou2

11 years

wow i told you ...this is a long discussion

If you win everything and in the league scored 84 goals en 31 matches and that is boring ...i want my team be very boring !!!

I love Pep ´s way ...ask every player who faced a Pep team and when you don t touch the ball how this is ...i always loved Bielsa ´s style .He makes very fast teams with a lot of vertigo ~~( 1,2,3,14)~~ But Pep improved this style . The big difference between this Bayer and his Barca was the quality of his players .

And Mou for me improve his teams. He go far than his team deserve always. Excepted the Last time in Madrid .
For em Chelsea is far the worst team in this last 4 in the CL .He is less then PSG and they defeated them . That is the best from Mou . Even in Inter and Madrid he defeated to the best team in the history , Pep´s Barca

gmc

11 years

It's quite boss reading the few replies & opinions regarding Dithering David Moyes from overseas counterparts.All he did was basically confirm my post from 7 months ago.

As regards the mistake of getting rid of Fergusons back room staff,those of you that are new to football that has gone on forever and will continue to do so.You take your own 'people' with you.Did he not try to bridge that gap by appointing 2 of the class of 92 initially,Giggs & P.Neville ? People with United in their veins.Oh,who's in charge for the last 4 games ? Oh look,Giggs & P.Neville.What will be the difference ? The players will want to play for Giggs.The impression I got from being subjected to watching Man U under Moyes is that the players did not want to play for him.Pure and simple.I came to the conclusion very early on that this was the same as AVB at Chelsea.The players didn't want him,they spat their dummies out and got what they wanted.What happened ? They won the FA Cup & European Cup under Di Matteo.One of their own.

But Moyes sacking was not a football related decision.It was money.Allegedly he had a clause in his contract that stated that if he didn't get into the Top 4 in any one of his 6 year contract,he was gone.At 6pm on Sunday after we (Everton) gave him a football education on the field,it was mathematically not possible to get into the Top 4.Hence,'taxi for Moyes'.The Glazers budget at United is based on Champions League revenue so they can service the debt they have.It's no coincidence that their share price dipped on Monday,then added £120M on Tuesday after his sacking.Why not wait till the seasons end ? This is business,the brand of Man U doesn't stop in the off-season,the Glazers could have lost a hell of of lot more if they waited a month.

The biggest tell tale sign of my theory in paragraph 2 is this.Moyes asked Paul Scholes to join his 'team'.He said 'no'.Giggs gets the job he phones Scholes and asks him to join his 'team'.Scholes says 'yes'.But at the end of the day,the job was too big for David Moyes and the players didn't give him a chance.I think the regret he may have is that about 2005 or 6 Ferguson asked him to be his assistant with that view of taking over from him,he declined.Having had Moyes as my teams manager from 2002 to 2013,I thought he had more intelligence than to accept the offer as the first person to take the job after Ferguson was always doomed to fail after 1 year.Anyone remember Wilf McGuiness after Busby ?

Van Gaal is a shoe in for the job.Allegedly,he likes to keep one of the previous regime on his staff to bridge that gap to help him.That will be Giggs then...but I wouldn't put it passed Mourinho to win the European Cup with Chelsea & pitch up at United next season.If Ancelloti don't win the European Cup with Real Madrid,he's a better option though.

Moyes ? He's suited to the likes of Aston Villa,Newcastle or Spurs.As for my teams coach,Roberto Martinez.I didn't want him,but I will always back my teams coach.But after 10 months I can say this.Whether he wins us nothing or everything,the guy is pure class.He if he ever gets linked with your team you'll want him there,trust me.

And for the Fellaini haters.You watch him be a huge part of Belgium winning that World Cup in Brasil and wonder WTF.He was part of a huge squad at Man U and Moyes just didn't know where to play him for best.He's still a great player and will go to a better team next year.

Anyways,Norwich to win 4-0 with a Van Wolfswinkel hat -trick.Up the Canaries !

bartajax

11 years

Fellaini is a great player when it comes to strength and headers. He isn't a very technical or creative player. That's where my critisism toward United was based on

iTim

11 years

I think if Moyes hadn't taken his his own staff, he would've felt very isolated as the only new face amongst a successful setup. Replacing Phelan is ok, his job was to assist Ferguson and I'm sure Moyes would want his own assistant, someone he trusts. Meulensteen is a top coach and probably knows more about the squad from a coaching perspective than Ryan Giggs does. Lumsden, Round and Woods have been with Moyes for well over a decade, so it's perfectly reasonable for him to bring them along with him. Following the dismissal of Moyes, only Chris Woods remains from those four.

I think his sacking was a combination of money and football related reasons. The latter impacting on the former. Whilst fourth wouldn't be considered a success as it is with Arsenal, it would've guaranteed Champions League football and perhaps showed that Moyes had some ground to improve on. Sponsors and investors are buying into the club with the expectation that their brand is going to be exposed to Champions League football in amongst clubs from big European countries. United can perhaps afford a season out of the competition, but the pressure really is on to get back in it next season.

I agree that the players didn't give him a chance. There was no desire to go the extra mile on the pitch this season. The football at times was clueless. Moyes just didn't seem to have a winning mentality about him. Giggs has only had one press conference and he's already a marked improvement on Moyes in the words that he speaks. There's no "we'll try to..." or "there's belief...", Giggs is assertive with his words. It is a shame for Moyes that it all went sour and it's not entirely his fault that it did. He had the fans backing, even when a minority were flying banners over the stadium, and as I said earlier, when he returns to Old Trafford, he'll have a much better reception than the one he had at Goodison Park on Sunday. Giggs however is likely to receive the best atmosphere since United vs. Swansea at the end of last season.

Funny that van Gaal likes to keep the old management team in place and not bring his own in. He's probably a more accurate image of Ferguson than Moyes is, having won so much and being a commanding figure in the dressing room. Klopp and Ancelotti have ruled themselves out of the job so it really does look like it's van Gaal. As you'll have gathered from the more recent discussion here, Mourinho doesn't win many fans over with his style of play, but like van Gaal, he's won everything and he demands respect.

Finally, if van Wolfswinkel scores, then it truly is a backwards step!

iTim

11 years

Alright predictors,

We're nearly there. Three more rounds to go.

gmc

11 years

Would that be the same 'top coach' Meulensteen that went & failed at Fulham within a couple of months ? Lumsden has been Moyes' confidant and mentor since his Preston days,his sounding board if you will.Chris Woods was brought down from Glasgow Rangers when Walter Smith pitched up at Everton in the late 90's.He's only there now 'cos you need a goalkeeping coach,and as far as I can make out De Gea has had his best season.Woods will go the World Cup with the USA in the summer and go elsewhere after that,yeah he's USA goalkeeping coach.Steve Round has not been with Moyes for over a decade as he was only appointed as coach at Everton prior to the 2008/09 season following Alan Irvine going to Preston the previous November.The brand of negative football hence forth was due to him.This idea of going into a game with the intention of avoiding defeat as opposed to winning it is down to Steve Round.And Phil Neville is still there by the way from whom he brought with him,or is that overlooked because he is from the class of '92 ? I had noticed under Moyes tenure that no level of criticism was levelled at either Giggs or Neville in the media,even though they were part of his coaching staff.P Neville by the way had a stint coaching England U21's.

He never got a good reception at Goodison because of the whole handling of his departure dating back to May 9th when he was announced United manager,and subsequent trying to get players from us,his total 2 faced attitude regarding those deals and the fact he was going to Carrington while still under contract at Everton and effectively bidding for players he still managed ! And the blatant tapping up by Ferguson for the job behind Evertons back.And the fact that he was told by Ferguson,when Moyes asked him for advice,NOT to sign a contract with us that was offered in the February of 2013.Did you not see that David Moyes ignored the opportunity to shake hands with 2 members of Evertons staff before and after the game on Sunday ? I thank him for coming in at a time when we were struggling,and gave the club it's pride back and left it in a good state with a very healthy playing squad that Roberto Martinez has taken to a level that he could never do.Perfect example is Ross Barkley.Moyes gave him his debut at 17 against QPR.Never gave him a run in the side cos he didn't know how to play him.So he farmed him out to Sheffield Wednesday & Leeds United on loan.Martinez takes one look at him,says I've got a job for you,plays all season.Gets an England cap or 3 and is short listed for PFA Young Player of the Year (Sturridge will win it).

It's all projecture and opinion,so who knows what's around the corner.But the only reason Liverpool have won the League is because for the first time since you were born United haven't been competitive.Like winning a major when Tiger Woods isn't playing.

It's pretty apt too that Ryan Giggs is in charge of team affairs....cos hasn't he had 2 ?

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