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  1. Originally posted by Yogi:[..]

    I know tens of people who lived in communism, including my parents. There are people who say it was better and there are people who say it sucked.

    Now I live in something we all like to call "democracy". And well - I know people who say it's great and I know people who say it sucks.





    The point about communism is that everyone gets the same result, while the point of democracy is/should be that you get the same starting position and it's up to you what you do about it. I hope I don't ever have to live in a dictatorship. Not being able to travel abroad, everything absolutely censored, etc., what the helll was good about it? We certainly aren't living in perfect times, but they surely are better than the past.
  2. Originally posted by yuri31:[..]

    The point about communism is that everyone gets the same result, while the point of democracy is/should be that you get the same starting position and it's up to you what you do about it. I hope I don't ever have to live in a dictatorship. Not being able to travel abroad, everything absolutely censored, etc., what the helll was good about it? We certainly aren't living in perfect times, but they surely are better than the past.


    Again I do agree with you on most parts, but I know people (in the general region where Yogi lives) who have better memories. Of course not all of them, but for them the end of the communist area led to terrible wars. They say: The time before there was unity, high employment, higher standards etc.

    Without any doubt you're country (and many others) have been screwed up by the commies, but at another time and another place some people have better memories. But again, most people have lost a lot and there is no sense questioning the terrible things that happened.
  3. Originally posted by Risto:[..]

    Again I do agree with you on most parts, but I know people (in the general region where Yogi lives) who have better memories. Of course not all of them, but for them the end of the communist area led to terrible wars. The time before there was unity, high employment, higher standards etc.

    Without any doubt you're country (and many others) have been screwed up by the commies, but at another time and another place some people have better memories. But again, most people have lost a lot and there is no sense questioning the terrible things that happened.


    I do agree that what happened in Yugoslavia was terrible. I talk about communism from the Czechoslovakian point of view. We were so so so lucky that there was no violence here.
    And I'm not sure about the 'high employment' thing. Those were just statistic which looked good on the paper, but I don't think they were true. Well at least, most sorts of work during communism were unproductive. Companies planned to make some amounts of goods in let's say 5-year horizon, but didn't give a crap if their goods were selling or not. And please, what high standards are you talking about? Only people who worked for the party had 'high standards'.

    I think communists are/were no better than the Nazis. My two cents.


    I see the edit now
  4. Originally posted by yuri31:[..]

    I do agree that what happened in Yugoslavia was terrible. I talk about communism from the Czechoslovakian point of view. We were so so so lucky that there was no violence here.
    And I'm not sure about the 'high employment' thing. Those were just statistic which looked better on the paper, but I don't think they were true. Most sorts of work during communism were unproductive. Companies planned to make some amounts of goods in let's say 5-year horizon, but didn't give a crap if their goods were selling or not. And please, what high standards are you talking about? Only people who worked for the party had 'high standards'.

    I think communists are/were no better than the Nazi's. My two cents.

    [..]
    I see the edit now


    Well for some former yugo countries unemployment is A LOT higher now, of course that is because of the wars and the isolations that followed. Just proves that everything is relative And that its not strange for people to want old times to come back. Especially if the old times were a lot peacefuller than the 90s.

    I completely agree with all you say, i just try to enlighten an other point of view The world is never black and white.
  5. LikeASong!

    Is strange that you don´t talk about politcs...haha!

    You don’t know how lovely you are...

    A Coldplay song in a U2 website...It´s a bit of a nuisance,isn´t it?

    AIWIY...U2!!!


  6. I'm not saying communism was great, I'm saying it's preposterous to assume every single communist in the world is unreasonable, which you were doing.
  7. Originally posted by Risto:[..]

    Again I do agree with you on most parts, but I know people (in the general region where Yogi lives) who have better memories. Of course not all of them, but for them the end of the communist area led to terrible wars. They say: The time before there was unity, high employment, higher standards etc.


    This is true. The thing here was...famous lider from that time - Tito - he was fighting with Stalin because Stalin dreamed of global communist government while Tito wanted to make his own decisions.

    I mean, Tito was fighting nazis even in time when Russia and Nazis were stil on the same side. And Stalin didn't like it.

    And because of that USA wanted him on their side. But he wanted to stay in the middle. How powerfull Tito was says the fact that he destroyed two USA planes that were flying over Yugoslavia and USA didn't say a word about it. And in the near future they became friends.

    Some documents from that time even say that he wanted to turn to democracy...

    About standard. In place where I live today there are a lot of people that have huge houses but are considered poor. They built those houses in the time of socialism and they were just ordinary workers - mostly house builders. In that time you couldn't speak or act agains goverment but peope had jobs, nice houses, cars - they didn't care about freedom of speech.

    Tito could be remebered as one of the greatest leaders ever...but he ruined it all by killing hundreds of thousants soldiers of fraction that fought for Hitler without lawsuit.


  8. Originally posted by Yogi:I know tens of people who lived in communism, including my parents. There are people who say it was better and there are people who say it sucked.

    Now I live in something we all like to call "democracy". And well - I know people who say it's great and I know people who say it sucks.

    Amen to that.

    To my mind, the communism that many lived under was not true communism - the true form of communism can never be put into action in the world we live in because it requires human beings to be perfect and, essentially, not human: I'd say idealistic as opposed to realistic. It was an abuse of the original ideals that people such as Marx developed, but that's not supposed to be any form of consolation for those who suffered and were oppressed for decades, simply the way I see it. However, Yogi's right - most of the world lives under democratic principles and ideals, but you'll find people who feel oppressed by it and people who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    I don't consider myself a communist, but I wouldn't profess to say I think democracy's the be-all and end-all of political ideology - I think it's simply the best thing we've got at this moment in time.

    EDIT - I think I can see a link as to why you were asking me about the Velvet Revolution earlier on Juraj lol
  9. Originally posted by katherine94:[..]
    I'm not saying communism was great, I'm saying it's preposterous to assume every single communist in the world is unreasonable, which you were doing.



    History has showed that communism cannot work. Anyone who still thinks it can work is simply unreasonable.

    Originally posted by WojBhoy:[..]
    Amen to that.

    To my mind, the communism that many lived under was not true communism - the true form of communism can never be put into action in the world we live in because it requires human beings to be perfect and, essentially, not human: I'd say idealistic as opposed to realistic. It was an abuse of the original ideals that people such as Marx developed, but that's not supposed to be any form of consolation for those who suffered and were oppressed for decades, simply the way I see it. However, Yogi's right - most of the world lives under democratic principles and ideals, but you'll find people who feel oppressed by it and people who think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    I don't consider myself a communist, but I wouldn't profess to say I think democracy's the be-all and end-all of political ideology - I think it's simply the best thing we've got at this moment in time.

    EDIT - I think I can see a link as to why you were asking me about the Velvet Revolution earlier on Juraj lol


    You're right- communism wanted to create a perfect society where everyone is equal, but that can never be achieved, and I don't think it would be actually fair to people: if I am a cleaner, why would a lawyer have to have the same car as me just so we could say we're equal? The guys like Thomas More and Karl Marx might have had some nice ideas about what a perfect society could look like but in the end their ideology was completely abused, even though people were somewhat equal- they were restricted in the same way. Everything was rigid and no changes were acceptable.
    And indeed, democracy is not perfect but it's the best way of managing the society that's been here so far.

    Well, if I have to learn at school about French, English or American revolutions, I can't see a reason why you should not know a little about the revolution that took place over here

    What makes me angry is that our Prime Minister goes to Moscow and London during these days instead of staying here and celebrating 20 years of freedom. Oh well, he has already made his point- on a conference which took place a few days ago he stated that ''things were not that bad back then'' and that ''we've lost many benefits communism offered''. Then he, as he always does, called media prostitutes. When things were getting good for this country and we had things like enormous economical growth, these pricks came (back) and ruined it all. Too bad the regular folk likes the yadda yadda about how the Hungarians want to destroy our republic from the inside and don't give a crap about the important matters like economy or the condition the justice currently is in (i.e. it's controlled by a man who's veeeeery friendly to mafia)
  10. Does anyone else find it funny how anyone against illegial immigration is automatically a racist? I for one am firmly against it, and support closed borders, and the border patrol taking the hard line approach. If you want to come to America, do it the legal way.
  11. Originally posted by wtshnnfb01:Does anyone else find it funny how anyone against illegial immigration is automatically a racist? I for one am firmly against it, and support closed borders, and the border patrol taking the hard line approach. If you want to come to America, do it the legal way.


    You have a point, I am not informed enough to judge on American immigration policy though.


  12. No matter what there opinion is, no one will deny that the current setup, isn't working.

    On a side note, Obama broke his Fox news protest.
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