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  1. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]


    So you might say that God allows the evil to happen. That's true, he allows it in certain ways. And it is for our own good. We will benefit from it. So then you can say God is guilty for the evil, because he allows it, but.. On the 1st place, the evil doesn't come from God, He hates it. But He is so powerful that He can allow it without carrying the debts. And that's also something 'unbelievable', I can't understand it either, but I believe it. Humans always want answers, want to know everything, and when there isn't evidence or a good explanation, it isn't true. Humans should accept that God is unimaginable.




    Hm, if the evil doesn't come from god, he isn't almighty. If he accepts the existance of the evil as something we benefit from, he isn't allgood.

    I would turn your last part the other way round: Humans already have clear evidence and good explanations, still they search for something spiritual. They should accept that god doesn't exist and start living.
  2. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]

    Don't forget that there is a lot of (non-biblical) evidence for a big flood. Read this: http://www.icr.org/article/570/

    I might like some fanatic when I post all this stuff here, but I just wanna answer questions I can answer and express my faith. To each their own mates.





    You don't really take the icr as a source, do you?

    Let's just assume that there was some kind of big flood. Why should it have been caused by god and not through nature?
  3. Originally posted by thebonodrums[..]
    no...they can come to Christ to lol


    How's that?

    BTW I can't believe that you think that members of all other religions are...heretics...







  4. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]

    Faith is no science, faith can't be proven, it wouldn't be faith anymore. There is a story of a man going to a barber. The barber doesn't believe, the man does. The conversation had a religious topic and the barber says he doesn't believe, that he has never seen God etc. The man let's him talk and goes away when the barber is done. When outside, he sees a woman with filty and dirty long hair. He goes back to the barber and says: 'I don't believe in barbers!'.
    The barber replies: 'Why not, you just got a haircut!?'. The man says: 'How is it possible that I see a woman walking outside with long and dirty hair?'. The barber says: 'That's her way of life, if she decides not to visit the barber. She knows I'm here'.

    The man finally says: 'It's the same with God'.

    What if the woman isn't able to afford a visit to a barber's?
    Originally posted by Genaro92U2Im catholic but i dont know... all i know is, when i die its gonna hurt like a b****.

    HA! Classic I wouldn't be so sure that it's gonna hurt like a sod - granted, I don't know whether it will or it won't, but you can't be sure either way so I wouldn't worry about it! People always say that the ideal way to pop your clogs is to pass away in your sleep, and I must say that sounds pretty grand to me, to close your eyes one last time and not have to wake up again, kinda idyllic really. But I'm not planning on leaving this world anytime soon, so don't you lot go getting any ideas!
    Originally posted by Yogi[..]
    How's that?

    BTW I can't believe that you think that members of all other religions are...heretics...

    And where did he say that anyone who wasn't a Christian was a heretic lol? There's a difference between a evaluative assessment and an assumption, y'know
  5. Originally posted by WojBhoy[..]
    What if the woman isn't able to afford a visit to a barber's?
    [..]
    HA! Classic I wouldn't be so sure that it's gonna hurt like a sod - granted, I don't know whether it will or it won't, but you can't be sure either way so I wouldn't worry about it! People always say that the ideal way to pop your clogs is to pass away in your sleep, and I must say that sounds pretty grand to me, to close your eyes one last time and not have to wake up again, kinda idyllic really. But I'm not planning on leaving this world anytime soon, so don't you lot go getting any ideas!
    [..]
    And where did he say that anyone who wasn't a Christian was a heretic lol? There's a difference between a evaluative assessment and an assumption, y'know


    Imagine she is, every person on this planet if able to afford a visit to God...
  6. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]

    Imagine she is, every person on this planet if able to afford a visit to God...

    Then that's essentially trying to hypothesise a perfect world, which isn't possible possible because the world isn't perfect I get what you mean, but disagree to an extent.
  7. Originally posted by yeah[..]


    You don't really take the icr as a source, do you?

    Let's just assume that there was some kind of big flood. Why should it have been caused by god and not through nature?


    ICR is not neutral, I know. The same goes with theories about evolution though.

    Let's re-ask your question: Why should the flood have been caused by nature and not trough God? And the bible says God made the earth, he controls the nature. You're splitting nature and God, forgetting that the nature is God's tool. Maybe God, as I said before, used evolution as a tool. Evolution itself might be the evidence of God's creation, God's power. Do you know what was before the Big Bang? Where it came from, what initiated it?
  8. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]

    ICR is not neutral, I know. The same goes with theories about evolution though.

    Let's re-ask your question: Why should the flood have been caused by nature and not trough God? And the bible says God made the earth, he controls the nature. You're splitting nature and God, forgetting that the nature is God's tool. Maybe God, as I said before, used evolution as a tool. Evolution itself might be the evidence of God's creation, God's power. Do you know what was before the Big Bang? Where it came from, what initiated it?

    It still suggests that he used the flood to wash away the sins of un-Godly people (and their lives, for that matter), which is not exactly a very forgiving act. I know there are people who suggest that God gave them their chance to repent or something similar, but that doesn't suggest an omnibenevolent God as he is regarded to be. And what about all the poor bloody cows and pigs etc. who didn't have much in the way of a say?!
  9. Originally posted by yeah[..]

    Hm, if the evil doesn't come from god, he isn't almighty. If he accepts the existance of the evil as something we benefit from, he isn't allgood.

    I would turn your last part the other way round: Humans already have clear evidence and good explanations, still they search for something spiritual. They should accept that god doesn't exist and start living.



    That's your way to interpret it. Allgood doesn't necessarily mean that God let us walk on perfect paved roads. The end is good though for anyone who accepts Him. The start is known, the end is known, the way between it is rocky. We made it rocky ourselves.

    About evil, I explained that earlier (God's command/God's plan, He is able to cope with every type of evil, which makes Him allmighty). You're free ofcourse to interpret it in your way.

    About humans, there are explanations and there is evidence, but that's 2% of the entire picture. I asked some questions in earlier posts, a lot of evolution is based on coincidence followed by coincidence etc. There is much more in this universe than we know and see, I believe. Some folks say Christians are afraid to die, so they create a God which removes that fear. Well, I'm not afraid to die..Evolution says that our bones will be the only remains of us after death, so everythin goes black, like a deep sleep without any dreams. Why should I be afraid of that? And I'm not afraid, I know there's something else awaiting me.

    I could turn this the other way round: Non-believers fear death and by hearing about heaven and hell, they look for a way to take that story down by saying there's nothing at all at the end. In case it might be true afterall.

    Both faith and evolution have mysteries. I'm on one side of the story, others are on the other side of it. We'll see who's right at the end.
  10. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]We'll see who's right at the end.

    Or will we?

    And you say non-believers fear death - I don't lol. I'm not bothered if there's something after our ordinary existence here or whether we just go completely out of existence altogether. I'd prefer the latter because I don't want to exist forever. It would remove any need for making a good fist of one's mortal innings lol, because why bother doing anything if you're going to live forever, albeit it in 2 different existences?
  11. Originally posted by WojBhoy[..]
    It still suggests that he used the flood to wash away the sins of un-Godly people (and their lives, for that matter), which is not exactly a very forgiving act. I know there are people who suggest that God gave them their chance to repent or something similar, but that doesn't suggest an omnibenevolent God as he is regarded to be. And what about all the poor bloody cows and pigs etc. who didn't have much in the way of a say?!


    They were saved, Noah's story about the arc. Christians/scientists have always doubted this story about the arc being run aground at mount Ararat. However, the origins of humans and the start of the worldwide spread started somewhere in the Middle East, the place where Ararat is.

    God forgives those who ask Him for it, the world in these times was one big disorder. Those who don't come to God for forgiveness aren't saved. God is omnibenevolent to those who accept Him. He loves humans, He made us perfect, we ruined it. I know that also raises some questions, like: 'If God knows it all and is almighty, why did he allow the evil to come into this world?'. I can't answer that, the bible doesn't give answers for it. The bible though says God's plan is unknown to us.

    I find strenght in this quote from the bible, 1 Corinthians 13:12:

    Now all we can see of God is like a cloudy picture in a mirror.
    Later we will see him face to face.
    We don't know everything, but then we will, just as God completely understands us.
  12. Originally posted by WojBhoy[..]
    Or will we?


    I believe I am, you believe you are..this discussion can last for ages, or to our death.
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