U2start.com | Paul McGuiness talks about music piracy

That's very true. Would be interesting to see if they could come up with a CD that could only be ripped once, but then you deal with all sorts of issues like multiple machines per single owner, etc. It just gets too hairy.

I personally have a great deal more respect for artists who stream their albums online the day/week of release. It's the whole try before you buy idea with much less responsibility involved. With a torrent, you have to have the motivation to spend money on something you already own, which isn't always easy. The other way around, you don't possess it until you actually decide to buy it.

LikeASong

14 years

The "listen before you buy" thing has always existed. Do you know what is was called before? SINGLE. Artists released a single track which was more or less representative of their new album, and people listened to it on the radio, TV etc. If they liked it they used to buy the album.

But now? Now you download full albums, even Deluxe editions with rarities and b-sides, and listen to it all. And maybe, after listening to it, maybe you might buy it. FUCK. It's like going to a museum and watching all the paintings exposed in the street outside, without entering the museum and of course without paying for it. And, of course, the original paintors don't agree witht that, but what can they do? Everyone wants to see their paintings on the street, for free.

Nowadays, the little amount of people who buys after downloading do it only because they liked what they heard and/or they're too lazy to burn it to a CD and/or they want to have the original booklet.

Risto

14 years

Just use Google Images for the paintings

It has some U2 in it

MattG

14 years

I don't know, Sergio, there's more to buying music that you already own than just laziness, in my opinion. Also, as far as the single goes, that's all fine and well, too- but is "Get On Your Boots" representative of NLOTH?

This is about to get somewhat personal, and is obviously not the case with everyone, but here's why I do it-

First of all, there's something different about holding a physical CD in your hands and saying, "I purchased this, this is a visible representation of something that I liked enough to pay for".

Secondly, in my case, I got into the music that I'm into now, and was more willing to experiment with different kinds of music, through my dad. When I was so young, he had shelves and shelves of CDs that I would pull off at my leisure and listen to. He'd catch me, and sit down and tell me who it was, and why he likes it, and when he bought it, etc. Even if I hated it, I'd remember that, and pull down a new one, asking my dad which ones were good, which one was the popular one on the radio, what's the best one that nobody listened to, etc. As I got older, the questions got more and more detailed, as I ached to know more and more about the music he grew up with, and as I likewise established a foundation of music that I listened to at a young age- Weezer, Smash Mouth, Savage Garden, AC/DC....alongside bands like Rush, Pink Floyd, John Mellencamp, and George Thorogood- all off my dad's album shelf.

Long story short- I'll be damned if my kids are gonna grow up like some of my friends did, listening to Top 40 bullshit like "Call me Mr. Flintstone cause I can make your bed-rock" instead of hearing some of music's history, experimenting for themselves, at least having the courage to test out some of the music that their old man grew up on and loved enough to buy, like my own dad and his albums. If my kids decide that Lady Gaga is more likened to their taste than U2, then that's fine- but I want them to at least have heard The Joshua Tree before they automatically decline older music. Call me old-fashioned at the ripe age of 18, but its hard for me to imagine my kids sitting around browsing through my hard-drive, looking at "dad's music". I want that physical representation- not even just for my kids, but for there to always be a lasting memory of the impact that the music had on me; an impact more visual than just the memories I share with the songs. I remember the day I bought Radiohead's "The Bends", not just the first time I heard it.

So yeah, part of the reason I'm buying some of this stuff that I already downloaded is for the kids that I don't have yet, never know when they'll eventually come around, or what type of music generation they'll be born into. Is it stupid? Maybe. Does it feel great to at the same time be building something that I can see from where I'm sitting right now, and know that what it is is more than just a bunch of CDs? Yeah- it's a huge part of my life, track by track, and I hope someday the same collection can be a big part of someone else's too.

Risto

14 years

Originally posted by EyesWithPrideB3:First of all, there's something different about holding a physical CD in your hands and saying, "I purchased this, this is a visible representation of something that I liked enough to pay for".

QFT

yeah

14 years

Originally posted by LikeASong:The "listen before you buy" thing has always existed. Do you know what is was called before? SINGLE. Artists released a single track which was more or less representative of their new album, and people listened to it on the radio, TV etc. If they liked it they used to buy the album.

That doesn't really match the mentioned torrent "concept"

What was equal to the listen before you buy thingy in the pre-internet age was that you could listen to the album on a vinyl/CD player in the store before buying it. And you still can...

Or to bootlegs on record fairs - but that's another story.

MattG

14 years

Originally posted by yeah:[..]

That doesn't really match the mentioned torrent "concept"

What was equal to the listen before you buy thingy in the pre-internet age was that you could listen to the album on a vinyl/CD player in the store before buying it.

Or to bootlegs on record fairs - but that's another story.

I was never around for that age, but yes, that's equivalent to what I'm talking about. I suppose the closest thing that's 100% legal these days would be going through iTunes' 30 second samples of each song.

LikeASong

14 years

Originally posted by yeah:[..]

That doesn't really match the mentioned torrent "concept"

What was equal to the listen before you buy thingy in the pre-internet age was that you could listen to the album on a vinyl/CD player in the store before buying it. And you still can...

Or to bootlegs on record fairs - but that's another story.

I've never seen a store where you can play the whole album, it's just snapshots of 30 seconds or one minute. At least in all the stores I know in Spain - and I know a few.

Anyway, the difference is obvious: in a store, you don't OWN the music, you just listen to it. Further and back, all the times you want... but you don't own it. The fact is that when you download an album, you can burn it to a CD and voila!! now you own it, for a total of... mmm... 0'25€?

yeah

14 years

As I said. That was in the pre-internet age. You still can do it in a few record stores. But those only rarely exist anymore these days. Fnac still offers it, Virgin, etc...

I didn't say that there was no difference. The concept of listening to a full album is the same.

KieranU2

14 years

I used to be a heavy torrenter. I think I illegially downloaded 50GB's of music, but I suddenly stopped. I remember buying a CD and thinking, "Why am I illegally downloading music?". So now I buy my music and I actually like doing that and I know a few people here on U2start like doing that as well. The money goes to the artist for their hard work. I don't think I would like buying CDs from artists who are rich, like U2 but because they are my favourite band, I like having a hard copy of a U2 CD, it shows I'm an avid collector of U2 stuff. If it was a band who released their first or second album and I liked a recent single, I would definately buy it.

Originally posted by EyesWithPrideB3:The other thing I've thought about lately, too, is the whole "used music shop" thing. We've got a store by us called Disc Replay, and they buy used music and movies for a dollar or two, and turn around and re-sell it for 4.99. Great deal, and I'll buy almost anything on a whim from there, because even if I end up hating it, I'll sell it back and only have lost 3 or 4 dollars- not a HUGE deal to me. The problem is that if I hit an album that I really love, I've technically stolen it, if you think about it. Let's say somebody hated "No Line on the Horizon", but paid the full price for it new. They turn around and sell it to Disc Replay, who in turn shares that music with me. Joe Schmo who bought the album originally still has all the songs ripped to his iTunes, and now I do too, so 2 people have a U2 album while Disc Replay is the only one profiting from one of the sales. Is that right?

I would love a pre-owned CD shop. It's something that's extremely difficult to find in the UK. CD's are a rip-off in the UK, the cheapest shop I can find is called Fopp. They sell some CD's for £3 or £5 and some above that. That's all we really get. You've got the shops like HMV who sell some CD's for about £15. I can't afford that, I may as well torrent it or look on the internet for it cheaper.

I don't know if I'm the only one with shares CD's around with friends but I do it, alot. I can't afford to buy every CD that intrests me, that's why I borrow them off my friends. I wouldn't see why that's illegal, I thought sharing was a good thing.

MattG

14 years

Originally posted by KieranU2:
[..]
I don't know if I'm the only one with shares CD's around with friends but I do it, alot. I can't afford to buy every CD that intrests me, that's why I borrow them off my friends. I wouldn't see why that's illegal, I thought sharing was a good thing.

It is, in moderation. For example, if someone shares one CD of a band with you, and you find yourself listening to them often, when a new (or newly discovered to you, if its old) album is seen on the shelves of a music shop, you're now likely to buy it. The artist has one more fan than they did before, and sure- they didn't get the couple of bucks they WOULD have seen if you would have just up-and-bought the album, but they've converted you and you're more likely to spend money on them in the future, which is better than no money at all.

LikeASong

14 years

Originally posted by yeah:

As I said. That was in the pre-internet age. You still can do it in a few record stores. But those only rarely exist anymore these days. Fnac still offers it, Virgin, etc...

I didn't say that there was no difference. The concept of listening to a full album is the same.

Indeed, I was referring mainly to FNAC. It's still very big here in Spain, they sell more physical albums that most of the other stores together.

Anyway, I will repeat it: listening is not owning!! I can't see anything bad in listening to a whole album before buying it (apart of the obvious reason that you're spoiling 50% of the listening pleasure, which is discovering new songs at home, etc - but anyway)...... the thing I'm all against is to own the album before (or instead, which is the actual problem) buying it.

Paul McGuiness talks about music piracy

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