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  1. Ahhh there is the guy who lied to me. Good to see you found the way to the site So why did you say yes and block us afterwards ?
  2. -edit- I better keep myself out of this discussion
  3. Originally posted by vanquish:[..]

    Excuse me, what was wrong with my post - it's a valid consideration relevant to the discussion, if you disagree with me please post your points rather than censoring my posts.


    You already fucked up the Technology Topic with that same arguments only a few days ago!
  4. Originally posted by vanquish:
    The funny thing is the FLAC will hardly sound better than a decent MP3, I mean after all it's an amateur recording with audience noise and what not, it is the exact equivalent of downloading a crappy quality youtube video and encoding it to Bluray specifications.


    useless argument. it's not because it's not a professional recording that you have a bad sound in the end. make some research and you'll learn mp3 compression is especially bad when used on live recordings since it creates some sort of echoing in the background, some people describe that as a 'water effect'. have you ever seen a spectral analysis of an mp3 file and it's original lossless version side by side ? you should it would certainly show you how much information is deleted in the compression process.

    if you can't ear the difference between mp3 and lossless recordings please have your ears checked, or train your ears to listen to details, which you obviously miss. mp3 is a low end lossy compression, taking frequencies out for the purpose of losing weight in the final size harming the sound in the process. don't forget that every mp3 encoder works in a different way, and some are better than others.

    do you have an idea of the quality of most microphones used nowadays in recordings ? the mics alysha uses for example are commonly used in studios or live recordings to mic the instruments and are worth 3000€ a pair, the dpa4061 for example is commonly used by professionals to mic pianos, violins & the likes and weights in at 800€ a pair. we're not talking there about amateur mics you can buy in any store you find around. sure if you use an ecm719 you don't have all the frequencies rendered as should be, but that's not the case with most mics used nowadays.

  6. Originally posted by JulienLossless:[..]

    useless argument. it's not because it's not a professional recording that you have a bad sound in the end. make some research and you'll learn mp3 compression is especially bad when used on live recordings since it creates some sort of echoing in the background, some people describe that as a 'water effect'. have you ever seen a spectral analysis of an mp3 file and it's original lossless version side by side ? you should it would certainly show you how much information is deleted in the compression process.



    I never said that the lack of professional recording causes boots to have bad sound, just that it isn't pristine, studio quality sound like you get on a professional recording and that you can actually hear compression artifacts on. On live recordings where there are so many other sources of noise, it is sillly to think compression has a significant impact on sound quality (unless of course the encoding is crap).

    I have never seen anything that says compression is especially bad on live recordings but please point me in the correct direction or give me a technical reason why that is the case

    As for spectral analysis of an MP3 file vs lossless and the removed data - that is a reason I get from absolute beginners who think that FLAC is the holy grail or something.

    Do you have any idea on how MP3 encoding works? It throws out information that we can't hear.
    Please read this for a short discussion on the basic underlying theory:
    http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/10/the-audiofile-understanding-mp3-compression.ars/


    if you can't ear the difference between mp3 and lossless recordings please have your ears checked, or train your ears to listen to details, which you obviously miss. mp3 is a low end lossy compression, taking frequencies out for the purpose of losing weight in the final size harming the sound in the process. don't forget that every mp3 encoder works in a different way, and some are better than others.


    It depends on what MP3s you're talking about, unlike lossless files, lossy files are hit and miss - especially when most people don't know what they're doing.
    When i'm referring to MP3s I mean the best quality encoding possible ie. ripped with EAC using LAME on either V2 or V0 variable bitrate. V2 is considered transparent for the vast majority of people and most audiophiles think V0 is slightly overkill.

    But of course if you're comparing FLAC with a 128 kbps CBR MP3 anyone can hear the difference.

    If you are sure MP3 creates echo artifacts in live recordings please post a FLAC recording of a live performance (just one song will do) and I'll encode it properly and we'll see if there's any hearable difference.

    do you have an idea of the quality of most microphones used nowadays in recordings ? the mics alysha uses for example are commonly used in studios or live recordings to mic the instruments and are worth 3000€ a pair, the dpa4061 for example is commonly used by professionals to mic pianos, violins & the likes and weights in at 800€ a pair. we're not talking there about amateur mics you can buy in any store you find around. sure if you use an ecm719 you don't have all the frequencies rendered as should be, but that's not the case with most mics used nowadays.


    Ok, I didn't know that, but are tapers with such high quality gear the exceptions or the rule?
    And the mics might be fantastic but depending on where the recorder is stationed and stadium acoustics the recording might not be that great.



    Risto and other mods - the discussion is more relevant to this topic than the tech one as the key issue here is that certain tapers want their bootlegs to be uploaded only in FLAC. So IMO a discussion of the reasoning behind that is worthwhile.
  7. This whole discussion was started by someone sharing a lossy bootleg But i get what you mean. Truth is people willl say they here the difference, if they do or not. You can throw facts at them but that wont change anything. If they hear it you cant do anything about it.

    It's just as pointless as the rest of this discussion.
  8. the topic title is "respecting taper's wishes, not "is lossless worth or not"

    looks like tapers try to impose you things like you can only listen to recordings on Monday, Wednesday and Friday or things like that

    We all know that once it is out, it is out.
    But sometimes even simple request like a link back are deliberately ignored with pride

    Not only that, is the tone some people use

    "WTF, again - share it or don't share it and shut the f-word up'

    Certainly not encouraging
  9. Well he was warned for that. I am sorry it all went south on your recording.
  10. Originally posted by Risto:This whole discussion was started by someone sharing a lossy bootleg But i get what you mean. Truth is people willl say they here the difference, if they do or not. You can throw facts at them but that wont change anything. If they hear it you cant do anything about it.

    It's just as pointless as the rest of this discussion.


    Yes, I know that people say they can hear a difference and throwing facts at them won't help.

    THAT is precisely why any poster on audiophile forums like hydrogenaudio have to back up any claims of above average hearing with results from ABX double blind tests, which cannot lie and simply objectify subjectivity. ie it will prove or disprove whether a listener can consistently differentiate between lossless and lossy audio samples.

  11. Lyndon, I warned you before. Next post on your own useless "Flac vs MP3" war and we'll take action, right? Thanks.
  12. Ohh dear, what's going up here? I think it's better to close the Thread know. Nothing more comes to the actual discussion.
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Contribute to the U2 community with uploading photos or by telling us which shows you have visited.
Contribute to the U2 community with uploading photos or by telling us which shows you have visited.