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  1. Originally posted by germcevoy[..]

    google Large Halidon Collider. It will blow your mind what man can do. They rival God. .


    Man rival God??

    God made man and put that brain in his head.
  2. Originally posted by yeahOkay, I'll rephrase my questions, to be clearer:

    1. If god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, how is it possible that evil and suffering exists?

    2. How does biological Evolution get along with the Sacred Scriptures of the Abrahamic religions?


    Yeah, dear member, I'm happy to take part in this discussion. Always good to have some real discussion about questions of life.

    1. I believe God is flawless. He made us and gave us a free will (I admit, already that answer...though I'll continue). Free will means we have the ability to do everything we want, murdering, loving etc. The 'sins' as we call it are our own mistakes, not the mistakes of God. He made us perfect with free will, we ruined it when the devil seduced us. So why all the suffering, evil etc? We brought it into this world. The devil has power too and God can give the devil some free workspace. (Bible book Job) God uses the suffering etc to open our eyes, to teach us. Christians believe, and so do I, that we deserve death. We ruined what God once made. Only trough Jesus, our mistakes can be solved and forgiven. And they're already forgiven, when you accept Him as your liberator in this very life. So there's no need for sadness or fear, I know this life is far from perfect, but what will come will be perfect.

    2. My thoughts about evolution are very clear. God made the earth, period. Genesis says He made in seven days, but the bible also says God doesn't know time. We humans know time, every thing has an end and a start (as The Editors say). It's hard for us to believe there's something called eternity, something that doesn't end. So I believe God made the world and said He did it in seven days, but should we take this literally? If God doesn't know time, He probably made it more clear for us to understand by saying it was 7 days. Maybe it were 700.000 years, who knows. Maybe God was even behind the evolution, so the evolution was His creation. God gives life, and when you observe nature, you must confess: it's pretty amazing to see how every single animal is made, with their instincts, colors etc. Even our own body...who invented the white bloodcells to cure wounds? Also the complexity of our brains, with electric activity. Who invented the simple looking but complex eye, with light being transported to our brains, turned upside down and eventually made bright and clear for us to understand and see within a split second? God did....I say. There's one creator of this all, one God who invented it all. It can't be done by simple evolution and coincidence.

    About evolution: I said it very well could be that God was behind it, but not behind evolution as we know it now. Evolution says there once was one bang, which eventually gave some tiny moleculs and cells called life. I just don't believe and see how an elephant and a fish are from the same origin. I believe God made several standard animals/creatures. For example: a dog, a cat, the humans, the bird etc. From that dog, the wolve was evolved, the same goes with the tiger from the cat etc. And what was before the big bang? What caused the big bang? Why are planets so perfectly round?

    Something else....I once read about Near Death Experiences. A lot of people get these experiences when they see death in its eyes. There's been scientific study about this and the scientist aren't done with it. Some say these memories are jsut hallucinations of a dying brain, others state otherwise, saying there's more. A remarkable thing about these experiences are that every race, every person can have them. There are a lot of stories from people all over the world who had such experience and strangely enough, they all say the same. The usually see beautiful lights, lights which aren't known here on earth. They see a shining and intense light without a sun, they hear extremely good music (U2..? ), see beautiful landscapes and they feel complete. (All these things are mentioned in the bible book Revelation). Most of them, when they get back on their feet, wanna go back to the place they say saw. Some of them even commited suicide, knowing the place they had seen was perfect, much better than life on earth. Most lives have changed drastically afterwards, they know there is so much more than just living your life here.

    As said in Jeremiah 33:3, also mentioned on the cover of ATYCLB:

    Call to me, and I will answer you; I will tell you wonderful and marvelous things that you know nothing about.

    About evolution, do you guys know there are rumors saying Darwin became Christian before he died? Not proven though.

    Afterall, I have given some answers here but probably also raised many questions. I also don't know anything, there are questions I have which remainn unanswered, knowing I once will get the answer from God himself. God is much bigger than me, His thoughts and ways are incomprehensible.

    I end this big post with a quote:

    1 Corinthians 13: 12
    What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete—as complete as God's knowledge of me.
  3. Originally posted by WojBhoy[..]
    Tadpoles who never wanted to grow up


    LOL... evidence to me is that they are still there.

    same thing with chimps.. they are still living.. supposedly chimps grew into monkeys into apes etc.. well apes have been around for hundreds of years.. shouldn't there be some new ape.. or better yet.. a new human being? lol
  4. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]As said in Jeremiah 33:3, also mentioned on the cover of ATYCLB:

    Call to me, and I will answer you; I will tell you wonderful and marvelous things that you know nothing about.

    God's telephone number, if I remember Bono's words correctly
    Originally posted by MWSAH
    About evolution, do you guys there are rumors saying Darwin became Christian before he died? Not proven though.

    That wouldn't surprise me, there are many scientists around the world who hold religious convictions
    Originally posted by Ariees[..]

    LOL... evidence to me is that they are still there.

    same thing with chimps.. they are still living.. supposedly chimps grew into monkeys into apes etc.. well apes have been around for hundreds of years.. shouldn't there be some new ape.. or better yet.. a new human being? lol

    Indeed, I won't pose any counter to that 'cause I know sod all about science, to be honest, only the basics you learn in high school (and that which then gets disproved at a higher level - I mean, centrifugal force - apparently it doesn't actually exist, it's merely an extension of another scientific theory. My thoughts? No one knows anything ).

    Would you say that you're more of a Fundamentalist Christian or a more liberal one? i.e. do you take, say, the book of Genesis at word-for-word value or do you take it as a metaphor for how the world started?
  5. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]

    Yeah, dear member, I'm happy to take part in this discussion. Always good to have some real discussion about questions of life.

    1. I believe God is flawless. He made us and gave us a free will (I admit, already that answer...though I'll continue). Free will means we have the ability to do everything we want, murdering, loving etc. The 'sins' as we call it are our own mistakes, not the mistakes of God. He made us perfect with free will, we ruined it when the devil seduced us. So why all the suffering, evil etc? We brought it into this world. The devil has power too and God can give the devil some free workspace. (Bible book Job) God uses the suffering etc to open our eyes, to teach us. Christians believe, and so do I, that we deserve death. We ruined what God once made. Only trough Jesus, our mistakes can be solved and forgiven. And they're already forgiven, when you accept Him as your liberator in this very life. So there's no need for sadness or fear, I know this life is far from perfect, but what will come will be perfect.

    2. My thoughts about evolution are very clear. God made the earth, period. Genesis says He made in seven days, but the bible also says God doesn't know time. We humans know time, every thing has an end and a start (as The Editors say). It's hard for us to believe there's something called eternity, something that doesn't end. So I believe God made the world and said He did it in seven days, but should we take this literally? If God doesn't know time, He probably made it more clear for us to understand by saying it was 7 days. Maybe it were 700.000 years, who knows. Maybe God was even behind the evolution, so the evolution was His creation. God gives life, and when you observe nature, you must confess: it's pretty amazing to see how every single animal is made, with their instincts, colors etc. Even our own body...who invented the white bloodcells to cure wounds? Also the complexity of our brains, with electric activity. Who invented the simple looking but complex eye, with light being transported to our brains, turned upside down and eventually made bright and clear for us to understand and see within a split second? God did....I say. There's one creator of this all, one God who invented it all. It can't be done by simple evolution and coincidence.

    About evolution: I said it very well could be that God was behind it, but not behind evolution as we know it now. Evolution says there once was one bang, which eventually gave some tiny moleculs and cells called life. I just don't believe and see how an elephant and a fish are from the same origin. I believe God made several standard animals/creatures. For example: a dog, a cat, the humans, the bird etc. From that dog, the wolve was evolved, the same goes with the tiger from the cat etc. And what was before the big bang? What caused the big bang? Why are planets so perfectly round?

    Something else....I once read about Near Death Experiences. A lot of people get these experiences when they see death in its eyes. There's been scientific study about this and the scientist aren't done with it. Some say these memories are jsut hallucinations of a dying brain, others state otherwise, saying there's more. A remarkable thing about these experiences are that every race, every person can have them. There are a lot of stories from people all over the world who had such experience and strangely enough, they all say the same. The usually see beautiful lights, lights which aren't known here on earth. They see a shining and intense light without a sun, they hear extremely good music (U2..? ), see beautiful landscapes and they feel complete. (All these things are mentioned in the bible book Revelations). Most of them, when they get back on their feet, wanna go back to the place they say saw. Some of them even commited suicide, knowing the place they had seen was perfect, much better than life on earth. Most lives are changed drastically afterwards, they know there is so much more than just living your life here.

    As said in Jeremiah 33:3, also mentioned on the cover of ATYCLB:

    Call to me, and I will answer you; I will tell you wonderful and marvelous things that you know nothing about.

    About evolution, do you guys know there are rumors saying Darwin became Christian before he died? Not proven though.

    Afterall, I have given some answers here but probably also raised many questions. I also don't know anything, there are questions I have which remainn unanswered, knowing I once will get the answer from God himself. God is much bigger than me, His thoughts and ways are incomprehensible.

    I end this big post with a quote:

    1 Corinthians 13: 12
    What we see now is like a dim image in a mirror; then we shall see face-to-face. What I know now is only partial; then it will be complete—as complete as God's knowledge of me.




    Great post... only thing I would disagree on is Revelations... well, it's not plural Revelation. There's only one.. and it ends with Jesus Christ beating Satan.
  6. great discussions so far though. I am glad to see other people on the board that enjoy talks about faith, God (or the lack of, in some cases)...

    One thing we can all agree on though.. U2 is a great band. They bring us all together.

    I've often wondered, if u2 is such a pro Jesus Christ band.. I never see a "thanks to Jesus" on the album's thank you list.
  7. Originally posted by Ariees

    I've often wondered, if u2 is such a pro Jesus Christ band.. I never see a "thanks to Jesus" on the album's thank you list.


    controversey?
  8. Originally posted by Arieesgreat discussions so far though. I am glad to see other people on the board that enjoy talks about faith, God (or the lack of, in some cases)...

    One thing we can all agree on though.. U2 is a great band. They bring us all together.

    I've often wondered, if u2 is such a pro Jesus Christ band.. I never see a "thanks to Jesus" on the album's thank you list.

    Indeed - I may not have any religious tendencies but I'm fascinated to discuss the nature of others religious beliefs in addition to my own. Being raised the way I was, it would be odd if I didn't

    And I agree about U2 - if there's one thing we all have in common, it's our love for one of the greatest bands to ever have set off down the rocky road into music history!

    I don't think it's quite right to say that U2 are such a pro-Jesus Christ band as you put it; remember that Adam isn't a religious man in the sense of being of a certain faith. I think the religious messages are built into the songs where religion is an important part of the music, apart from the odd session of Bono "shouting with God", e.g. during Pop - Wake Up Deadman, anyone? If God Will Send His Angels being another...I mean, I think you could interpret Beautiful Day as a kind of thankyou in some respects - "it's a beautiful day, don't let it get away" could be seen as a general thankyou for all the good stuff that happens in our lives, and I guess being a religious person, you could see that as an indirect thankyou to God or something.
  9. Originally posted by Ariees[..]

    1... God allows people free will to do as they choose. Evil happens because people do things to cause the evil.

    2. If we all came from tadpoles why are there still tadpoles today?


    1. So man causes all diseases and natural disasters?
    2. Because mutation is no automatic process.
  10. Originally posted by MWSAH[..]



    1. I believe God is flawless. He made us and gave us a free will (I admit, already that answer...though I'll continue). Free will means we have the ability to do everything we want, murdering, loving etc. The 'sins' as we call it are our own mistakes, not the mistakes of God. He made us perfect with free will, we ruined it when the devil seduced us. So why all the suffering, evil etc? We brought it into this world. The devil has power too and God can give the devil some free workspace. (Bible book Job) God uses the suffering etc to open our eyes, to teach us. Christians believe, and so do I, that we deserve death. We ruined what God once made. Only trough Jesus, our mistakes can be solved and forgiven. And they're already forgiven, when you accept Him as your liberator in this very life. So there's no need for sadness or fear, I know this life is far from perfect, but what will come will be perfect.

    2. My thoughts about evolution are very clear. God made the earth, period. Genesis says He made in seven days, but the bible also says God doesn't know time. We humans know time, every thing has an end and a start (as The Editors say). It's hard for us to believe there's something called eternity, something that doesn't end. So I believe God made the world and said He did it in seven days, but should we take this literally? If God doesn't know time, He probably made it more clear for us to understand by saying it was 7 days. Maybe it were 700.000 years, who knows. Maybe God was even behind the evolution, so the evolution was His creation. God gives life, and when you observe nature, you must confess: it's pretty amazing to see how every single animal is made, with their instincts, colors etc. Even our own body...who invented the white bloodcells to cure wounds? Also the complexity of our brains, with electric activity. Who invented the simple looking but complex eye, with light being transported to our brains, turned upside down and eventually made bright and clear for us to understand and see within a split second? God did....I say. There's one creator of this all, one God who invented it all. It can't be done by simple evolution and coincidence.




    1. If the devil has power, too, how can god be omnipotent then? If he uses suffering intentionally to teach us, how can he be omnibenevolent?

    2. So, if humans know time, do they know more than god?
    So you don't believe in Verbal Inspiration, did I get that right?
    And why shouldn't the complexity you mention be the result of evolution and coincidence? It has lasted billions of years and still goes on...
  11. Originally posted by yeah[..]

    1. If the devil has power, too, how can god be omnipotent then? If he uses suffering intentionally to teach us, how can he be omnibenevolent?

    2. So, if humans know time, do they know more than god?
    So you don't believe in Verbal Inspiration, did I get that right?


    Sorry to butt in, but what's Verbal Inspiration?
  12. Originally posted by WojBhoy[..]
    Sorry to butt in, but what's Verbal Inspiration?


    The correct english term is Biblical inspiration. It means, that the bible was directly and word by word breathed out by God.
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U2start is run by fans for fans. Help us reduce personal costs. Consider to make a donation to support us.
U2start is run by fans for fans. Help us reduce personal costs. Consider to make a donation to support us.